This is really what happened to dinosaurs.

Let me start with my view of dinosaurs. I know that dinosaur is an odd topic for a Bible study. I would bet you are saying the Bible doesn’t say anything about dinosaurs. Well come over to my side of the table for a while and let me point out some of the things I believe the Holy Spirit has pointed out to me. I want to start with this subject because even those who do not study the Bible should be able to understand what has happened to the very large and small reptiles which once walked on this earth. If you are one of these perhaps, when you see some truth in the Bible, you will be tempted to find more. I have, am, and will pray that you do also.

 

We usually think of Satan as a man, but the Bible says,(Gen 3:1 NIV) “Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. So one can see that, though the followers of Satan are men, Satan himself is a wild animal and not a man. Satan didn’t take control of the serpent in Genesis, he is the serpent. He is never described as a man in the Bible. He is referred to as a dragon. From my side of the table it seems wrong to picture Satan as a man. He was not made in the image of God: man was. Men desecrate the image of God when they act like an animal, or Satan; who is an animal.

In the book of Genesis, chapter three, verse 14, God said to the serpent, (NIV) “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. Think about this for a minute. We know that serpents, or snakes as we call them today, do crawl on their bellies. It stands to reason that before the curse Satan did not crawl on his belly. This is the key to understanding what became of dinosaurs. It would not have been much of a curse if serpents were already slithering about in the dirt: would it? Serpents are reptiles without legs. Dinosaurs are, or were, reptiles with legs. Just to be as clear as I can be, am I saying God removed the legs of the dinosaur, which made him the snake that we know today!

There are many kinds of reptiles today. Not just snakes. There are lizards, crocodiles, turtles, and others. They all have one thing in common. They do not walk upright. The difference between reptiles and dinosaurs is that reptiles have legs that come out at right angles to their body, and an unusual knee structure. Dinosaurs had leg and hip structures close to that of mammals. This is, the trait, that one thing dinosaurs had in common that the world looks for when they wonder what happened to dinosaurs and they have yet to see it, but it is written about in the very first book of the Bible! The world compares dinosaurs to warm blooded animals when they try to determine what happened to them. They say it was a climate change which destroyed dinosaurs, but why didn’t the cold spell destroy all reptiles? Aren’t all reptiles cold blooded? There once were large, medium, and small reptiles which walked upright. Even reptiles which flew and though there are still reptiles living today, there are no reptiles which walk upright: no large ones, medium ones, or small ones! It is said one should not beat a dead horse, but this is what dinosaurs had in common and what caused their demise, they were reptiles which walked upright, and of course one of them tempted Eve which is really what caused their demise.

Only one serpent tempted Eve yet all reptiles suffered the curse. This does not seem out of line with the Bible when you consider all men suffer the curse that God pronounced on Adam and all women suffer the same curse as Eve.

One of the rules of truth is, if something seems true it must fit with all truth. In other words if something in the Bible seems right it must agree with everything else in the Bible. So let’s examine another book of the Bible, the book of Job.

Job chapter 41 talks about a creature called a leviathan. The description is that of a dinosaur or what we would call a dragon. Let me quote some of the verses from Job 41 that physically describe this creature.  Job 41:9-34 (NIV) Any hope of subduing him is false; the mere sight of him is overpowering. No one is fierce enough to rouse him. “I will not fail to speak of his limbs, his strength and his graceful form. Who can strip off his outer coat? Who would approach him with a bridle? Who dares open the doors of his mouth, ringed about with his fearsome teeth? His back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; each is so close to the next that no air can pass between. They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted. Strength resides in his neck; dismay goes before him. The folds of his flesh are tightly joined; they are firm and immovable. His chest is hard as rock, hard as a lower millstone. When he rises up, the mighty are terrified; they retreat before his thrashing. The sword that reaches him has no effect, nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin. Iron he treats like straw and bronze like rotten wood. Arrows do not make him flee; slingstones are like chaff to him. A club seems to him but a piece of straw; he laughs at the rattling of the lance. His undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge. He makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment. Behind him he leaves a glistening wake; one would think the deep had white hair. Nothing on earth is his equal‑‑ a creature without fear. 

The description, as it applies to a dinosaur, seems to break down with verse 18. (NIV) His snorting throws out flashes of light; his eyes are like the rays of dawn. Firebrands stream from his mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from his nostrils as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds. His breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from his mouth.”, but verse 34 is the key to understanding all the verses from 1 to 33. (NIV) “He looks down on all that are haughty; he is king over all that are proud”. Ask yourself who is king over all that are proud? Is not Satan “king” of all of the proud.

When one understands it is a description of Satan then verses 18 thru 21 finally become clear. You see, words come from ones breath. One must breathe out to speak and it is the words of Satan which send men to Hell. Hell is described as a place where the fire never goes out. Doesn’t it seem right to describe his words, or breath, as firebrands and flames?

The breath of Satan is the opposite of the Breath of God. God’s breath, which He breathed into Adam, gave life to all mankind. Satan’s breath, when he spoke to Eve, brought death to all mankind.

Consider verse 18 (NIV) “His snorting throws out flashes of light; his eyes are like the rays of dawn.” Light is a symbol of God’s word. Satan’s words come close to the truth, but only to confuse men, so the light from his mouth are only flashes. Now there is a characteristic of dinosaurs that the world hasn’t even thought of, dinosaurs, or at least one of them, could speak (Gen. 3:1-4&5).

If you do not yet think the Leviathan is Satan consider Isaiah 27:1, where the last days are spoken of. (NIV) “In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword, his fierce, great and powerful sword, Leviathan the gliding serpent, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea.” You can see from this verse that a Leviathan is a serpent, and we know Satan is a serpent from Revelation 12:9 (NIV)The great dragon was hurled down‑‑that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.”  And Revelation 20:2 (NIV) “He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.” One can understand from these verses the words serpent, leviathan, devil, or dragon used in the Bible mean Satan. Now we can add one of our words to the list, “dinosaur” which means terrible lizard.

Many ancient civilizations depict dragons with fire coming from their mouths. This no longer seems odd to me when I realized dragons played such an important part in the very first story in the history of mankind. This story was closer, or more recent, to all mankind in ancient times. They understood the symbolism of fire coming from the mouth of the Dragon. They knew who the dragon was: we have, or had, forgotten.

 

Every time the bones of a dinosaur are found, physical proof of the first story in the Bible is presented to the world, and the world doesn’t see it. Isn’t that amazing? !!!! What seems so amazing to me is God wrote the account down in plain view of all mankind and yet concealed it!

 

If you are an unbeliever (thanks for wading through the Bible verses) the view from your side of the table is different than mine, and you are not so amazed, but you owe it to yourself to reconcile a few points. Why are there no longer any reptiles which walk upright, or that fly, though there once were, and how could someone write a description of a dinosaur, never having seen, nor heard of one, and how could one write an account of the destruction of a whole breed of animals if they had never even seen one. I think you will have to admit it is quite a coincident that there is a book which speaks of them, describes them, and even explains the cause of their demise.

 

Think about it for a while before you discount the view from my side of the table. Know this, I am not a teacher. I am only a student. Be a Berean (Acts 17:11) examine the Scriptures every day to see if what I said is true. God wants to speak directly to you, not through me to you. God speaks, through His Scripture, to anyone who will listen and He wants to speak to you. If God would grant me the ability to teach one thing it would be, with great eagerness examine the Scripture every day to see if what any man said is true.

The Student

30 Responses to This is really what happened to dinosaurs.

  1. First of all, thanks for the lively discussion on my blog about political statements by Christians. Your comments didn’t make me angry so don’t worry.

    When Satan is referred to as an animal in scripture, it’s not literal but figurative. Jesus is the lion of Judah, but we know it’s not meant to be literal. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus as a dove, but we know it isn’t his true form. Satan is a spiritual being who can disguise himself as an angel of light and can even possess people (like Judas and the Antichrist).

  2. astudent says:

    Well Harry, you have found me out. I am a literalist. When the Bible says a donkey spoke, I believe an actual donkey was doing the talking. If you take the position that whenever Satan is referred to it is only figurative, then my post makes no sense. It seems to me that in order to take something as figurative it must be referred to as something else: somewhere else.
    Jesus is described as God, Son of God, Son of man, and man. One can easily see that when He was called the lion of Juda that it was figurative. The very phrase “lion of Juda” would signal that it was not a real lion.
    Satan is always called an animal when described and referred to figuratively as the accuser, the prince of demons, prince of the world, stumbling block, like lightning from heaven, and others.
    The Holy Spirit descended on Jesus like a dove (Mat 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, and though it is said “as a dove” in John 1:32, it is the same Greek word “hosei” that is used in all of the verses).
    Then I have to ask, “How does it describe how, or what a thing really is, when it is said the thing can disguise itself as something else?”
    Satan is not spoken of as a man anywhere in the Bible, or let me say that if he is I missed it. I have only found references to animals when Satan is spoken of. Because you believe when the serpent is referred to that it is only figurative, I would have to ask, “What is the serpent figurative of ?”
    I do agree with you when you say Satan is a spiritual being, but I believe that before he became only spiritual he was mortal as well.
    I use to believe as you do that Satan was a man, because I was told that he was. Ever sense I read that the Bereans were more noble than others because they did not accept what was said until they compared it with Scripture I have tried to emulate them. When I compared the statement that Satan was a man to Scripture I found no supporting evidence.
    It sure makes one seem cantankerous when you doubt everything, but that is part of the price of being like a Berean.
    Thanks for the comments. One comment that disagrees is worth a thousand that agree.

  3. The right one says:

    well, first of all, satan would be portrayed as a man, SATAN WAS AN ANGEL NAMED LUCIFER!!!!! so that throws off your whole theory right there…

  4. astudent says:

    The right one ?
    Thanks for the comment, but of course you knew I would disagree with you.

    First Satan is never portrayed as a man. He is always called an animal (dragon, ancient serpent, wild animal), but I am just repeating what I said in the post. Geneses 3:1 is as clear as anyone can be as to whether Satan is a man or an animal.

    You do know that the word angel means messenger. If you only apply this meaning to the word it will make angels easer to understand.
    The Hebrew word is (Strong’s) mal’ak, mal-awk’; from an unused root mean. to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; spec. of God, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher):–ambassador, angel, king, messenger.
    And the Greek word is (Also Strong’s) aggelos, ang’-el-os; from aggello [prob. der. from G71; comp. G34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; esp. an “angel”; by impl. a pastor:–angel, messenger.
    We tend to add all kinds of attributes to angles in our minds, which leads to confusion. You can see from both definitions that an angel can be a prophet, priest, teacher, king, ambassador, or pastor. However all are messengers and none are supernatural beings.

    The word Lucifer means heylel, hay-lale’; from H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:–lucifer.
    The word is only used once in the King James version and not used in the NIV at all.
    Now I seldom see anything that seems even slightly wrong in any translation, however the word Lucifer is not capitalized in Strong’s. All proper nouns in Strong’s are capitalized, so I would assume that Lucifer is not a given name and the NIV is correct.
    (KJV) Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    (NIV) How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
    Having said that, a given name does not necessarily denote a human being. Dogs and cats often have human names, but that does not make them human.

    Again thanks for the comment. One comment that disagrees is worth a thousand that agree.

  5. Rich In God's Glory says:

    Dear astudent:

    You being guided by the Holy Spirit to know that the dinosaur is really the serpent/dragon and they are cursed to be on their bellies to eat dust (Genesis 3:14) and the fossils REALLY belonged to the dragons’ is wonderful! It’s amazing what you can find through Google, by simply searching for the words “dragon” “dinosaur”, and “snake”. I am glad that I came across your comments and I have shared it with others. You are NOT alone, with knowing this truth from God and there is a new book that is available world-wide that tells us more, through the literal interpretation of the holy scriptures, about what you know.

    The book is getting some “buzz”, with a unique and unheard of piece of information on page 34 of this copyrighted book that only God could reveal. The unique book is entitled “God Reveals a Mystery!” by Patricia A. Thomas. Here is the synopsis of the book that is available on many book websites such as Amazon and this synopsis was taken from Barnes and Noble’s website:

    Lies and myths surround the dragon. With so many distorted pieces to a complex puzzle, only God can sort through the complexity of falsehoods and reveal the truth with simplicity. God knows everything and He can give you the solution to a puzzle that man could never fathom. Many know, especially in the continent of Asia, that the fictitious or mythical dinosaurs’ fossils really belong to the dragons. Well, what happened to the dragons? There has to be an answer out there somewhere and there is. The God-given answer will surprise many. But, knowing the truth will set you free!
    The profound truth in Patricia Thomas’ book will open up your eyes to realize the answer to this “great mystery” that has perplexed many for years. The plain and simple facts are here with an insightful revelation about our biggest adversary, Satan or the devil. You will be amazed and shocked at how distorted pieces of a puzzle can come together and allow you to see a perfectly clear picture! The author, with the guidance of God, has researched the Holy Bible’s scriptures, to unravel the cord of confusion and tie together the thread of understanding.

    *************************************************************

    Of course there are blogs and websites such as http://www.bibletruths.com and books such as “Satan A Biography” by Professor Henry Ansgar Kelly of UCLA that are out there that tells us that many of us have misinterpreted Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28; but most, if not all of them, lack the dinosaur/dragon mystery that “God Reveals a Mystery!” has.

    I am very optimistic and in prayer, because I see that others are being guided by the Holy Spirit to know what Genesis tells us- that it was literally a CRAFTY or CUNNING serpent or dragon that spoke to Eve and wise Apostle Paul reiterates that information in 2 Corinthians 11:3.

    Rich In God’s Glory!

  6. astudent says:

    Rich In God’s Glory!
    “You being guided by the Holy Spirit to know that the dinosaur is really the serpent/dragon and they are cursed to be on their bellies to eat dust (Genesis 3:14) and the fossils REALLY belonged to the dragons” is wonderful!

    You see with great clarity. It really is the Holy Spirit that reveals God’s word to those who search for understanding. I claim no credit for my understanding as it was a gift. You are absolutely right, I am being guided.
    I did not know about the book “God Reveals a Mystery!”, but I am sure that God didn’t reveal something to me alone. It is wonderful that He revealed it to someone who can write. I thought about writing a book, but I do not consider myself capable.
    Perhaps because you brought the book to more people’s attention it will become more of a success. I pray that everyone will understand God’s Word (Before they leave the earth), and maybe Patricia Thomas’s book will inspire them to open the Bible.
    Thanks for your comment.

  7. Ross says:

    Just thought I’d mention that I was reading through Genesis 1-3 today, as I’ve done several times before, and I suddenly got to thinking much of what you posted (about “the serpent” in Genesis 3 being a dinosaur) – and with no outside influence, or having heard this theory before. I was pretty sure it was unique (though possibly a “little far out there”), but I’m rather surprised to find other people think the same is possible!

  8. astudent says:

    Ross,
    Thanks for the thought, but I certainly did not come up with the idea that the serpent is a dinosaur with no outside influence. It is God that gives understanding and I take no credit for it; only joy. Because it is God that teaches it is only logical that others also understand. I believe that God will grant all of us complete understanding at some point, but right now it is a game to understand and it has benefits as it strengthens our faith. If anyone really believes that God will keep His word and they ask for understanding they will receive it and I am not the only one that knows this and I am not the only one who has asked.
    Almost any theory that is totally different from what is thought to be correct is considered “Far out”, but unless there some glaring flaw it should be examined.
    Thanks for examining my post and thanks for caring enough to comment.
    “O”, just a note that seems funny and right. God took vocal cords from the serpent as well as legs. I researched this just a little and I only found geckos able to make vocal noises. There may be other reptiles, but no snake can make vocal a noise.

  9. JAMIE LINDSEY says:

    ENJOYED THE STUDY OF DINASOURS MUCH! HAVE TALKED TO PEOPLE FOR SOMETIME THE POSSIBILITY OF THE DINASOUR BEING THE REPTILES THAT WALKED UPRIGHT AND WERE CURSED! PRAY FOR ME ,AS I WILL YOU! SEEMS SATAN REALLY WANTS TO “SHIFT ME LIKE WHEAT THESE DAYS AND I AM SURE HE WANTS BE TO SHUT UP ABOUT JESUS! MAY I FIGHT A GOOD FIGHT AND KEEP THE FAITH !

  10. astudent says:

    Jamie,

    Thanks for taking the time to tell me you enjoyed the post. I enjoyed writing and posting it at least as much as you did reading it. I don’t think God gives me any understanding that He will not give to others so it doesn’t surprise me that you also knew about Dinosaurs.

    I have to laugh when you say Satan wants you to shut up about Jesus. I feel like God wants me to speak louder about Jesus. I think I admire you a bit.

    Be careful of what you ask for, because I am going to pray that both of us speak louder about Jesus. I will add that I will ask God to give you more strength and calm your worries. Worry is a sin and should not be a problem for us.

    If you are worried then read the Word because that is where faith comes from.

    Just as another thought, you do know that the world can not understand spiritual things don’t you? God does not waste His time trying to teach someone who doesn’t even believe in Him. First the unsaved must realize that a birth certificate and a death certificate come as a set and there is a God that issued both. They must be warned and if they devote some time, searching in truth for God, then they will turn to Him. No one needs to hear about a Savior when they do not realize they need one. Satan is smart enough to understand that talking about a Savior to those who think they do not need one is a hindrance rather than a benefit. It brings discouragement to the believer and at the same time hardens the hearts of unbelievers.

    It seems to me that we get the cart before the horse when we speak about Jesus to unbelievers. I think we should speak about the law that condemns first and when the sinner understands that he is condemned he will want to hear about a Savior. Then we will not even have to speak loudly.

  11. Words Of Vision says:

    This is a wonderful and informative piece that you have written. The truth is growing at a rapid pace- as churches, books, blogs, and websites are telling the truth about the TRUE ORIGIN of Satan. God’s will is being done and as the truth grows we will no longer be a slave to such a blatant lie that has manipulated millions of people. We should be BOLD and not be afraid to tell others, because GOD is with us. Thank you!

    Yours in Christ Jesus!
    ~ Words Of Vision ~
    Author of God Reveals a Mystery!
    http://www.wordsofvision.wordpress.com

  12. astudent says:

    Words of wisdom,

    Thanks for the encouragement. I agree that the Word is growing at a rapid pace. God said that He would pour out His Spirit at the end of time (Acts 17&18) and it is apparent to me (us) that He is keeping His word.

    I agree with all that you have said. I would only add that those who are slave to a lie are so because they want to be. We are not slave to lies (There are many lies), but we are slaves to God; who is the righteous Master. There is nothing wrong with slavery if the Master is God (our Father).

    I also think that it is more important to understand the Word of God than to know the true origin of Satan, but still we need to know our enemies.

    I might add that it is a pleasure to receive encouragement from an author. May God bless your book.

  13. Archangel says:

    Wow, this is very interesting.
    I thought I was the only one in the world that thought of this idea. It appears I’m not the only one.

    I’ve held this same *exact* theory for a very very long time and it was only today that I wondered if anyone else shared this same idea so I decided to do a google search and found I’m not the only one.

    Great work! I hope the Holy Spirit has been guiding us both in the understanding of the scriptures.

  14. astudent says:

    Archangel,

    God is the God of gods and the Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries (Dan2:47), but He only reveals mysteries to those who seek the answers.

    I am sure that He is guiding us both in the understanding of Scripture: and many more of us as well.

    Isn’t it exciting to learn about God?

    “O”, it sure isn’t work for me. I love it.

  15. Genesis 1 says:

    A student: Nice blog. So the komodo dragon is not really a dragon, but some type of lizard? All dragons/serpents are without arms and legs, based on the curse in Genesis 3:14. Well, it’s just another thing that mankind has misnamed like the “dinosaurs”. With the chapter of Isaiah 14, concerning Lucifer (alias for King of Babylon), why is it that so many renown and well-known men and women teach this wrong on Radio, TV, and in churches? But, they say that they have the Holy Spirit, which leads and guides us into ALL truth, according to the New Testament scripture? On that note, with the Right One’s comment on July 3, 2007, “Lucifer” seems to be one of the biggest world-wide hoaxes and a barrier to many Christians about our adversary, the devil. Why is it difficult for many to know that literally the serpent (dragon) is the devil (Revelation 12:9 and 20:2)? But, like you wrote, we have to seek out the truth from God, but what if God decides not to give someone the information that He gives to others so freely? Perhaps some are not chosen to teach the Gospel and God is not responsible to help them? Or God has not given some people the authority in a particular subject matter to speak about it? I don’t think that some Christians, who are teaching the Gospel, want to teach things wrong and be liars. May the Lord help us to know what the truth is, so that we can help and share it with others like some are doing. We must be bold.

  16. astudent says:

    Genesis 1,

    Please forgive the late response. I have been spending some time out of town and it has disrupted my schedule: if I ever had one.

    You have spoken about things that use to bother me quite a bit. That is explaining to others what I believe the Holy Spirit has made somewhat clear to me.

    I don’t believe that God chose me to be a teacher. I have to admit that all my life when I thought I knew something that others did not I felt compelled to tell them, but that seems to be the norm for anyone. Only those who are attempting to benefit from knowledge keep understanding to themselves.

    It seems, for me anyway, that I create problems when I say someone is wrong about what they have been teaching. All men have a pride problem and therefore do not like to be told that they are wrong about what they have been teaching. It is really compounded when they have been honestly trying to teach the truth and even more so when they have, or are, receiving monetary support for teaching.

    If everyone would realize and admit that there is really only one teacher and that is the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27) there would be less friction between students and those who want to be teachers.

    Everything about God and His Word should be openly shared so that we can all contemplate the truth. Some are better students than others and I believe they should share the things God has shown them. However that does not make them teachers. If they are anything different they are only better students.

    I believe God has granted everyone the authority to speak about anything. True knowledge always ends in the glorification of God.

    I speak without reverence when I speak about this country, but the end result of truth is that God is glorified. You see that if our founding fathers had listened to truth and been satisfied with what God had given them and not tried to take the land that God had given the King of England for themselves their offspring would live in peace, but they didn’t.

    Now you might say that I am attempting to teach when I say these things, but I am not. I do not claim to be a teacher, only a student. If I as a student see truth and do not try to help others then I am not doing right. I would not be obeying the second greatest commandment (Love your neighbor as yourself).

    Perhaps I am wrong about something and because I am only a man it is certain that I am wrong about some things, but should I not say anything because I could be wrong? If that were the correct approach to sharing knowledge then no one should speak.

    Although I have no desire to be bold, I do agree with you when you say we must be bold. It seems to be a necessary evil. Sometimes I say things that others do not want to hear and if I do not defend what I have said others might think that I agree with those who comment in disagreement. Though I usually can not convince those who have made up their minds that I am wrong, others that read this blog can at least see that there is a different way to view what ever that particular subject may be.

    If your motives are pure then be bold and when others cite you as arrogant because you are bold realize that it is a blessing and not a curse. (1 Pet 4:14 NIV) If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.

  17. H. Jackson says:

    Cloud Ten Pictures is close, but they can’t see the curse that is in Genesis 3:14 about the dragon: http://www.dragonsfilm.com

  18. astudent says:

    H. Jackson,

    They will eventually. When The Holy Spirit teaches them.
    You bring to my mind 1Co 8:2 “The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.” I am pretty sure that I don’t understand everything about dragons – – – yet.

  19. Shizue Basu says:

    Thanks for this interesting information.

  20. soapyjames says:

    astudent,

    This is by far the strangest study I have come across so far. Not so much because it is ridiculous to even think about such things, but because it make so much sense. Oh how I marvel at your relationship with God. Your posts spur me on to consider more than that which is put before me. How very encouraging indeed.

    I shall continue to read your posts as you have taken the time to write them. May I ask you how you discipline your obvious ongoing spiritual development; prayer, study, devotions etc?

    Peace

  21. astudent says:

    soapyjames,

    It is easy.

    When you were baptized, you received the Holy Spirit and He comes to teach us all things, even the deep things of God (1 Cor 2:10-16).

    I asked God to teach me everything and the more I learned the more interesting Scripture became.

    I do not really study. I just think about Scripture and the answers just pop into my punkin head. We both have the same teacher and because He is a part of our mind it may seem as though we figured something out, but I don’t really think it is possible.

    Anyway, don’t look at me as a teacher, just a fellow Christian. I am sure God will grant you insight that comes from Him and not man, just as He has me.

    I have to laugh, as I have no discipline. If it isn’t interesting, I apply absolutely no effort.

    I use to like to read science fiction, because the stories would present strange situations that never could really happen and it teaches one to think outside of the box. Then one day I realized that I was living a story that is as strange as any science fiction story that could be dreamed. I am not the hero, but I will live forever and be happy at that. Isn’t it great?

  22. asinner says:

    astudent – Very insightful and yes, most likely more to this.

    I haven’t yet read through all of your posts, but intend to. I am curious if you have any inspired thoughts on baptism authority in today’s churches? Yes, the question mark is well placed, but not by me.

    Many more questions for you, but I will leave you with the above one for now. I always got in trouble for asking too many questions, but being a fellow student and not a teacher, you may not mind 🙂

    Keep writing.

  23. astudent says:

    asinner,

    I have to laugh, because your name fits me so well that I feel like I am talking to myself.

    Well, if I were talking to myself I would better understand your question.

    What do you mean by baptism authority?

    You will not get in trouble for asking questions here. Please realize that my answers may only be my answers.

    Perhaps we can learn together.

  24. asinner says:

    asinner was what came to mind at the time. In truth I have not only been a sinner, but one of the worst. I need not brag about that.

    By baptism authority, I mean where do we find our priests with God’s authority to baptize correctly? As you have mentioned that sprinkling a bit of soil over a dead body is not a correct burial. You know as I do that some of our largest, present day churches are not baptizing with God’s authority. This is not the correct topic to add more to this, so I was hoping that you would write down some of your present understanding or quicken my search if you already have.

    Most thankful.

  25. astudent says:

    asinner,

    I am not sure that God authorizes anyone to baptize. Or let me say it a different way. I believe God authorizes everyone that has become a Christian to baptize,

    Everyone that has accepted Jesus as their savior is a priest. Perhaps the term ‘Laying on of hands’ is the qualification for baptism. If someone has been baptized by a true believer then they have experienced ‘laying on of hands’, because it is not possible to baptize (bury) one’s self.

    It is something like physical life. It must be past on from one who is alive to one who is yet to live.

    If someone has yet to be baptized, then they should seek a church that properly baptizes and ask to be baptized.

    To be baptized one joins the Church of God, but not the particular denomination that performs the baptism. So, if that is a requirement of the minister and the person seeking to join the Church of God and not the denomination, then they should seek a minister that would baptize only in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with no other requirements.

    Of course, no priest of the Catholic Church could properly baptize anyone. The spiritually dead cannot have spiritual children. Those that have been sprinkled as a baby think that they have been baptized. Satan laughs and God cries.

    I have seen fathers baptize their children in a Bible believing church and the fathers were not ordained as leaders. I, for one, think that is correct.

  26. creationwitness says:

    astudent,

    I tend to agree and you have brought to light the issue of laying on of hands. Good point. It is not written that any other than John the Baptist laid hands on Christ. Was Christ only baptized as an example or was it also necessary for him to receive the Holy Spirit? Making straight or preparing the way of the Lord?

    I need to ponder whether fathers should baptize their own children. It may be correct if performed properly. I keep in mind that Zacharias or another priest may have baptized John, but also maybe not Matt. 21:25. This also brings to mind I Cor. 10:2 being “baptized unto Moses”. Baptized to/into/unto Moses? By scripture they were not baptized by him, but unto him.

    I also question “Everyone that has accepted Jesus as their savior is a priest”. Reason being I Cor. 12. Having said that, it depends on a person’s definition of priest. The word ‘definition’ in itself gives us an idea. The only definite is by God. I will pray for answer on this. I am sure there is more reference to this, but nothing comes to mind.

    Ah yes, so many more questions and again thank you for your input.

  27. astudent says:

    creationwitness,

    Your questions raise the same questions in my mind as well. That is why I follow this blog, as well as write it. God gives us the answers, so all we need are the questions.

    It seems to me that both the example and the requirement are correct. Look at the verse in the Old Testament (Isa 40:3) that is referenced in the New Testament (Mat 3:3, Mark 1:2&3, and Luke 3:4) and notice that the word for Lord is Jehovah and Jehovah is spelled with all capital letters, so it means God.

    Jesus was a man, but more than a man, he was the perfect representation of God. As a man it was necessary to be cleansed before the Holy Spirit could become one with him. Because Jesus was the perfect representation of God it is easy to be confused and think that he “is” God.

    There really is no question as to whether it was necessary or not. (Mat 3:15 NIV) “Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.”

    I do not think that John was baptized by anyone. John brought baptism, so I do not believe there was baptism before John.

    Baptism can also be considered as “joining”. We are joined with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit when we are baptized. Moses brought the Law to Israel and the Israelis were joined with Moses (baptized) in/unto/to the Law. That is not exactly the same baptism as the baptism of John and yet there are some similarities because our Father expects us to at least try to obey the law.

    It seems to me that you are confusing gifts with who we are. We are all baptized into one Spirit. We are parts of the same body and yet different. We all still individuals with different gifts, but with the same goals.

    (Mat 10:25 NIV) It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household!

    We are to try to be like our master: who is a priest (Heb 7:1-24).

  28. asinner says:

    astudent,

    Your insight is yet again very good and your definition of a priest perfectly acceptable “to be like our master”. I think if more of us could understand this concept we would have much better schools and churches to attend. Being separate parts of the body all with different gifts is one of our lessons. A church cannot exist with only one in attendance or one person trying to teach all. It would be dysfunctional if even one were missing though. Regarding baptism authority, surely there are those that are more qualified to do so. This is my

    It would have been better that this conversation was in a different topic heading so as to make it easier for others to find. Being off topic will not accomplish that. Having said that, I must add; maybe it is not to be easily found and read by all. Sure enough God will point it out to those who require it.

    As you have noted I changed my name here to creationwitness with full knowledge of the implication. I doubt it will be clear to everyone that we all are creation witnesses.

    God inspires us in many ways. Every time I think that I cannot love God any more deeply, he shows me I am very, very mistaken. We should open ourselves to God and continue our learning. Our denying egos have kept us away for far too long.

    I am truly grateful.

  29. astudent says:

    asinner,

    Sorry about being late to comment. I travel a bit.

    I think most churches, today, exist with only one trying to teach all. Most have a minister that gives a message on Sunday and for many that is the only teaching they receive. It is the fault of both teacher and student.

    I still disagree about baptism authority. To limit those who are authorized (by man, I do not find God limiting in Scripture) would narrow the chance that a convert could find someone with those qualifications and so he or she might not receive baptism. I see ministers that are serving money and yet they are qualified to baptize.

    There are many ways to view anything. To be baptized is to be buried with Christ. Who is it that actually buries someone? Is it the minister that is in charge of the funeral, or the worker that digs the grave, lowers the body, and then covers it up? I believe it is the worker, not the official.

    Paul shied away from baptizing, because others might think it was his power and not understand that it is the power of God. If authorization was or is necessary then I believe Paul would not have said that he ‘was thankful that he had not baptized anyone’.

    Our topic is understanding God, so we are not off topic. God has given all of mankind His Word and everyone would be better served to read Scripture instead of what we write. I hope and pray that others will only consider what I write or say as only questions and then consult Scripture to see if it is true. It would make me happy if everyone was a Berean.

    The truth is that I am a selfish and self-centered man and I trade comments with other Christians so that I might better understand Scripture. If someone else learns from the conversation it is a bonus and I am twice served. It is not man that teaches, but only Jesus. Isn’t it a wonderful thing that our Lord and master lowers himself to teach even the lowest of subjects like me? Well, I think so anyway.

    I am in complete agreement with your last paragraph.

  30. creationwitness says:

    Hello astudent and thank you for your reply. Your travel is understood.

    Authorized may be the incorrect word to use on my part, but I see you do not disagree. My definition of the word may differ, but your definition as you have written it out is in agreement. If a baptism is performed as per scripture, then to me that is a correct baptism. I believe we should refer to the author and not the man.

    It is not that Paul had not baptized anyone, just not the ones he was addressing. I am sure you are aware of this.

    And I am together with you and agree on your last paragraph 🙂

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