ATHEIST, WHY DO YOU DO THAT?

Why do you spend so much time and effort trying to convince believers not to believe?

If I believe there is a God what is that to you? Why is it of any importance at all to you?

I can not see any gain at all for you, or the government if I no longer would believe there is a God.

Actually, wouldn’t it be to your advantage that I believe in the God of the Bible? Believers in the God of the Bible are commanded to obey the two royal laws.

The first is (Deu 6:5 NIV) Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. That should cause no harm to you. Is it any of your business if I do this? Why should you care?

The second royal law is (Lev 19:18 NIV) “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.” This is repeated in Mathew, Mark, Luke, Romans, Galatians, and James.

It is said in Romans 13:10 (NIV) “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” Why would you want to convince me to stop believing this? I am commanded to obey this edict by God. Would you have me obey it just because you think it is right? You do think it is right, don’t you?

As a Christian I am commanded to obey the government also, (Rom 13:1 NIV) Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. I do not understand why even the government would want God gone (Separation of Church and State). Because the Holy Spirit is indwelled in every believer, the only way to separate Church and State is to separate me from the government. I would not be permitted to run for office or vote.

It is just not logical for anyone to try to convince me there is no God. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

Perhaps I just don’t see the importance or even the reason for such action.

Enlighten me.

20 Responses to ATHEIST, WHY DO YOU DO THAT?

  1. Justin says:

    very well done post. I don’t think it is wrong to question things (as atheists do), but I agree that it can get to the point where Christians see attack after attack. That is why I joined Agnosticatheism.com as contributor…to defend the faith as much as possible, but I do realize that at a certain point, sometimes people’s hearts are hardened that they don’t actually listen.

    love your conviction.

  2. Matt says:

    I see it as part of the pursuit of truth and intellectual honesty. The Bible, for example, is demonstratably full of historical errors, contradictions, etc. And yet a lot of people hold that it is literally true and try to influence those in power to follow the Bible to make decisions. Which, as the simplest of logic dictates, would be a very silly thing to do indeed.

  3. Sue Ann Edwards says:

    Maybe it has something to do with avoiding the responsibilities for the costs and consequences of those beliefs. Psychological costs and consequences. Beliefs that result in mental and emotional insecurity issues.

  4. astudent says:

    Justin,
    Thanks for the words of encouragement.
    “I do realize that at a certain point, sometimes people’s hearts are hardened that they don’t actually listen.”
    As it is said, (Ezek 12:2 NIV) “Son of man, you are living among a rebellious people. They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people.

    Matt,
    “I see it as part of the pursuit of truth and intellectual honesty.” There is something wrong with qualifying honesty with the word intellectual. It shades the meaning: if it is not intellectual then it is not honesty? To me truth is truth and honesty is honesty.

    “The Bible, for example, is demonstratably full of historical errors, contradictions, etc. And yet a lot of people hold that it is literally true”.
    A lot of people hold that the Bible is full of historical errors, contradictions, etc., but it is literally true.

    Now there is an odd thing. Word spellchecker red lined the word “demonstratably” and suggested “demons ratably”: demons -An evil supernatural being; a devil: ratably – That can be rated, estimated, or appraised. Test me on this. I am not one who is always looking for a sign, but that sure looked like one to me. (It says to me “the way demons rate the Bible”)

    “try to influence those in power to follow the Bible to make decisions. Which, as the simplest of logic dictates, would be a very silly thing to do indeed.”
    I would have to think this out. If you mean those in power should lie to those who elected them I would disagree. However I am not sure about dealing with a foreign country. I think that is way too broad a statement and to complicated to state that the simplest logic would apply. Those are good thoughts though.
    Thank you very much.

    Sue Ann,
    That is very insightful. I did not think of it at all. The truth is I really didn’t have a clue why.

  5. dancingmoogle says:

    While I am not actually an athiest, (I tend to follow the Tao for enlightment), I would like to pose the counter question to you. Why do so many Christians try to make people believe in their version of God? I do believe in a creative force, and I have met many Christians, and they are always trying to tell me that my belief system is wrong. I personally belive it is the Yin/Yang effect in place. Both Christians and Athests fight hard for their opposing veiw point. And in my humble opinon, you both need each other to give each other balance.

    Molly

  6. The Imugi says:

    As a fellow “Follower of Tao”, I agree with dancingmoogle. While I do sympathize with astudent, especially given the rise of “fundamentalist atheists” like Dawkins, Dennet, Harris, and Hitchens, historically speaking it’s been the other way around: instances of Christians persecuting atheists and non-Christians happened rather frequently. Furthermore, in the United States, at least, Christianity enjoys an enormous amount of support.

    Given the above, I would say that atheists probably feel rather threatened. Furthermore, while the majority of Christians are peaceful, kind, loving individuals engaged in a positive relationship with the Divine, there are also a vocal minority of hateful individuals (i.e. Fred Phelps, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robinson, etc). These are the sort of individuals atheists tend to direct their attention toward (glossing over millions of Christians who are, in fact, living up to their name). Again, I would say that atheists are frightened.

    Personally, I don’t think anybody has a right to force their beliefs on others. And I think many atheists need to come to terms with the fact that their belief in materialism is exactly that—a belief. There are rational and compelling reasons to favor atheism over theism. There are also rational and compelling reasons to favor theism over atheism. There are rational and compelling reasons to favor beliefs which are neither theistic nor atheistic.

    Who has the right of it? Shouldn’t we all be able to respect the beliefs of others? Shouldn’t we give each other the benefit of the doubt, and assume that the other individuals are acting in a more or less reasonable manner? If we must debate the issue, shouldn’t we behave in a civil manner with each other?

  7. astudent says:

    Dancingmoogle,
    “Why do so many Christians try to make people believe in their version of God?”
    Let me see if I can condense it for you. First I have to say that I use the Bible as the true Book of God and I believe everything that exists is so complicated that it demands a creator. I believe the God of the Bible is the one and true God. I believe that God made everything because He is love (1 John 4:8&16) and He wanted someone to love. Everyone wants those who they love to love in return. No one wants to love a machine, so God had to give us a choice to love in return, or not. (Yin & yang) (sin & righteousness) I believe everyone must make the choice. To not make a choice is to choose not to love God.
    Now perhaps I can answer your question (and a darn good one). If we are right and you do not choose to love God you are condemned to live forever without God. You will have to create your own universe and everything in it. At least that is the way I would describe a hell: Utter and complete hopelessness. A man who is truthful will admit he can not do this. We are commanded to love others as we love ourselves, so we do not wish anyone to be condemned and that is why we present the Gospel (Good News). It may seem as though we are trying to make you believe, but the truth is you are in charge of your own destiny and you have the right to refuse to listen. I respect your right, but if one really loves others he will seem too persistent at times.

    “And in my humble opinion, you both need each other to give each other balance.”
    I believe sin and righteousness oppose each other like yen & yang do, but there is no balance. Sin has the upper hand, but I would like righteousness to be dominant. I do not want balance.

    The Imugi,
    “instances of Christians persecuting atheists and non-Christians happened rather frequently.” Anyone who would persecute another is not following the teachings of the Bible (Rev 22:11 NIV) Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.” We get a lot of bad press because some call themselves Christians persecute others. I can call myself anything, but my actions reveal what I am.

    “Personally, I don’t think anybody has a right to force their beliefs on others. And I think many atheists need to come to terms with the fact that their belief in materialism is exactly that—a belief.”
    I certainly agree with that.

    “Who has the right of it? Shouldn’t we all be able to respect the beliefs of others? Shouldn’t we give each other the benefit of the doubt, and assume that the other individuals are acting in a more or less reasonable manner? If we must debate the issue, shouldn’t we behave in a civil manner with each other?”
    That is also well said. I would have to admit that Christians also sometimes become frustrated and act in an uncivil manner.
    I have to admit that I like both of you from what you have written and of course I wish you would consider the God of the Bible. (You knew I would say that, didn’t you)

  8. dancingmoogle says:

    Yes, I did. 🙂

    Peace,

    Molly

  9. The Imugi says:

    Astudent:

    “Anyone who would persecute another is not following the teachings of the Bible…”

    That is a good point, and one that I think many atheists fail to acknowledge. Christians who behave in such a manner are not really acting as good Christians.

    “Of course I wish you would consider the God of the Bible (You knew I would say that, didn’t you).”

    That I did 😉 Ultimately, though, I think we both acknowledge the same Divinity in different ways.

  10. astudent says:

    Imugi,
    “Ultimately, though, I think we both acknowledge the same Divinity in
    different ways.”
    I will not argue the point with you. I think we would both agree that there is only one God and if we are acknowledging that God then I would agree. Don’t you want to know all that you can about this same Divinity? You will find more about the Divinity in the Bible. Much of the information is hidden, probably just to make it fun to find.

  11. atheistperspective says:

    “I believe everything that exists is so complicated that it demands a creator”

    I really like this blog, it’s fascinating. But that above comment, I don’t believe you. I’ve read a few bits on here and you’re too intelligent to really believe that. You’ve read enough to know that’s a silly argument. Even I know that’s silly and I’m often called an idiot. I think it’s a short cut for saying something else and I also believe that people who use it do their argument no favors at all.

  12. astudent says:

    Atheistperspective,

    Guilty as charged! It is a short cut. If I don’t use this phrase I have to argue evolution and because science never publishes any of the evidence against evolution it is a monumental task. Science not only does not admit publicly when it is wrong, those who are recognized as creditable do not even allow the theory to be challenged.
    It does depend on what you read and if only evidence for evolution is printed, then that would have to be ones view.
    By the way, I have also been called an idiot. It seems that if you think for yourself it is inevitable.

  13. Brandon says:

    Have you ever seen someone replace the foundation of house….it’s
    quite involved, they have to jack it up etc..well, the bigger the
    house, the more difficult the job. This, to me, is similar to asking
    an older religous person to think about abandoning their faith. The
    longer they build their life on that foundation, the more emotionally
    invested they become in it proving true. They will argue absurd
    points of view, lie, decieve, ignore evidence, and fight tooth and
    nail to defend their faulty foundation. Religous older people remind
    me of Morgan Freeman’s character in the ‘Shawshank Redemption’.
    Obviously, he could have lived a much happier life with freedom, but
    being incarcerated for so long left him emotionally invested in the
    foundation, or structure of prison life. He just could not deal with
    freedom or the outside world anymore. So much so, that after his
    release, he hung himself. While the thought of religous people
    hanging themselves is not altogether unapealing…(Hardee Har Har
    Har)…thinking that anything a well intentioned atheist might have
    to say about reality, evidence, rational thought or the scientific
    method is going to prod this ‘captives of fairy tales’ to all of
    sudden ‘jack up their house’ and re-examine their faulty ‘foundation’
    of absurd myths is, to say the least, unlikely. Better to follow
    their example and expend valuble energy going after the much more
    pliable minds of the children. Let’s get them to think about their
    ‘foundation’ before their house is so big they become pinned under
    it.

  14. astudent says:

    Brandon,
    I really like your analogy of replacing a foundation to beliefs. I did not get where I am by ignoring any evidence, lying, or deceiving anyone. I like your analogy because that is what I have done over and over and yes it is a big job to jack up your beliefs and reexamine the very basics of what you believe. It should be apparent that if your foundation is bad that what ever you build on it is also corrupt, so it is of utmost importance that your foundation is correct.
    My question to you still remains “Why do you do that?” Jack up your own house and ask your self “Why do I do that?” why is it important for you to try to change me? If my beliefs only make me a better person (If followed) then is it intelligent to try to change them? Especially if they do not harm you, or anyone else. If you understand what I am saying then you can see that “a well intentioned atheist”, if their intentions are to change my beliefs, is an oxymoron. You make the very mistake that you accuse me of. Examine your own intentions.
    By the way I did not try to change your beliefs. I only ask you why you try to change mine. Could it be that you are emotionally invested in proving your views true?
    Brandon, you seem like an intelligent person, so prove it and go get your jack.

  15. You perceived a message from god from a spell checker?
    Maybe the root of the word demon, which comes from daemon,
    which illustrates the early church’s task of “evilizing” the gods of the Pagan Greeks.
    Maybe the Universe is trying to tell you here, through everyone else, you’re wrong. And you just didn’t rationalize out the message of the spell checker through enough
    I know the church’s history better than most Christians.
    and my spell checker is telling me maybe i should add evilizing to the dictionary!
    I must be right. God and the spell checker are on my side.

  16. astudent says:

    Cody,

    Well, Cody the real message from God to everyone is the Bible and the task of the early Church is the same task today: to warn those who will not consider God and to help those who will.

    You say that I am wrong, but you didn’t specify what I am wrong about. Is it my original post or something that I said in a comment?

    If it is about the word “demonstratably” it still isn’t a word and the spell checker hasn’t changed either. Perhaps the message was to me and not to you. After all if you do not believe in God then a message from God to you would seem ridiculous and it does: doesn’t it? The Bible, as well as I say that it does: you just can not understand it. (1 Cor 2:14)

    It is obvious that one of us is confused. You say that perhaps the universe is trying to tell me something through everyone else, but everyone would have to agree with you and of course they do not.

    You may well know Church history better than most Christians, but what good is knowing Church history? Knowing the Bible is of great value, but Church history is only records of sinners trying to be perfect. What good is knowing that? I could have saved you a lot of time: we are not perfect and we can not be.

    You say God and the spellchecker are on your side and you believe in the spellchecker, so does that mean that you also believe in God?

    There is no need to add “evilizing” to the dictionary as “evildoing” is already there.

  17. Adam says:

    Why would an atheist try to convince others that they are wrong? Well, aside from the basic premise that atheists care whether or not their beliefs are true, the fact that religious people try to force their views onto others in areas of life that really have nothing to with said religious people is one motivation. For example, gay people being legally married. Who cares if gay people get married? Does it affect you in any way if a particular gay couple is married or not? I highly doubt it. However, religious people led the fight against gay marriage because they believe that it’s wrong. They force their warped morality into courts and parliament because they believe they have the divine right from god to do so. As an atheist, that pisses me off. I don’t actively go around trying to deconvert the religious, but I can see why someone would want to. The world would be a much less aggravating place without sanctimonious assholes. The really ridiculous thing is that the religious proselytize all the time about how great it is to believe in god because all you want to do is be good to people no matter who they are, spread joy and love, be humble and generally make the world a better place, but they rarely seem to do so. If they actually acted this way (that includes being humble and realizing when people DON’T want to hear their message they should be left alone) I’d be a huge fan and maybe I’d be a little more inclined to listen to their message. There are many more reasons, I just thought I’d highlight the one I considered to be most relevant.

  18. astudent says:

    Adam,

    Thanks for the comment. I found no deceit in it. As you can see, I am a bit fired up on deceit. Kind of sensitive right now, but I will get over it. Well, that was on a different thread, so perhaps you didn’t know that I was fired up.

    It might surprise you, but I agree with you. One cannot “make” someone else believe in God, or practice what we believe, and I don’t think that we should try.

    We are told to be like Jesus, and Jesus, though he had all of the power of God, and could have forced everyone to be like him, he did not force anyone to do anything. Well, he did run the phonies out of the Temple twice, but they came back, and they are still there.

    We Christians just get too carried away, but, in our defense, we do believe that if anyone does not turn to God, that they will be driven from His presence at the end of time. We would rather everyone would be saved. However, it is a personal decision that only the individual can make. If it were up to “anyone” else, then God would make everyone understand, but even He keeps quite!

    You are right, gay marriage is none of my business. If it makes gay people happy, then I am all for it. You see, if I am right, then those who will not turn to God can only be happy here on this earth and I for one would not take that from them.

    I would buy a drunk a drink, if he asked and I would buy him two, if he would listen to me. I doubt if I would buy him two if he wouldn’t. I feel that I have to save my money for those who might listen and if he would not listen to me, then I would have to listen to him. He would have to buy in that case. Have you ever been sober and had to listen to a drunk?

    I know some gay people and the ones that I know are what the world would call “good people”. I even like them: a lot. It is very easy for someone to look down their nose at someone that does something that they are not even tempted to do. However, we do not seem to apply the same condemnation to ourselves when we want sex that we should not have: and if we were honest, every one of us would admit that, at one time or the other, we all have wanted it.

    I think that one of the problems that plague many Christians is the idea that because we have turned to God, that we are somehow better than those that have not. Nothing is farther from the truth. We are only saved sinners, not holy, just saved.

    Most of the time I try to get along with everyone, but just like you, when someone tries to force their beliefs down my throat I bite back.

    By the way, please don’t call me a sanctimonious asshole. Well, until you get to know me.

    I have never (yet) held a gun to anyone, and made them listen to me. I don’t know any Christian that tried to force someone else to listen. If you don’t want to listen, then don’t, but don’t make a big deal out of it. If someone starts talking about the gay life, I just walk away. It’s not my bag.

    You are much more welcome here, than I would be commenting on a gay blog: and make no mistake, you are welcome here.

  19. Adam says:

    To be clear, I wasn’t calling you specifically a sanctimonious asshole, I was referring to those who would try to force their beliefs onto people from the point of moral high ground. And those who would drive secular beliefs into a non-secular system of goverment that was designed for the benefit of all people, not just those of a particular religion ie; prayer in public schools. I could give more examples of people who I would give the title to, but I’m sure you get the point.

  20. astudent says:

    Adam,

    I know. It was just an attempt at humor. It wouldn’t really bother me anyway.

    So, it’s nice to know that I am not specifically an a-hole: somewhat unspecifically, I guess.

    I’m a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess.

    By the way, I don’t think government was designed for the benefit of all people. Those who run the government would have you believe that, but when push comes to shove, I believe that government was designed for the benefit of those in charge.

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