WHY DO WE BUY INSURANCE?

The Bible tells us to place our trust in God.

(Isa 26:3&4 NIV)  “You will keep in perfect peace him whose mind is steadfast, because he trusts in you. Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal”.

We claim to trust in God, but then we seek and buy insurance from the world! Even churches have all forms of insurance for their employees! It seems phony to me to say trust in God when the one that is saying it has insurance.

 

We insure “our” house, when it really isn’t our house. If God wants to burn His house down what right do we have to insure it? Is it our loss, or God’s plan?

 

Who do we really trust? Consider Job and all of the problems that he had. Would insurance have helped him or hindered him?

 

God brought all of the problems that Job had on him. Now before you start throwing rocks at me I am not saying God did anything wrong. What happened to Job was for his own benefit. Job thought that he was being unfairly punished. He thought that he could stand before God and defend himself and in the end he had to admit that he was not as righteous as he first thought. Was Job’s problems his loss, or God’s plan, and Job’s gain?

 

Job knew that God had brought his troubles on him (Job 2:10), but he still trusted in God; not in man. How different would the Book of Job be if Job had insurance? Would he have said, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble? Besides we have insurance! What is the problem?”

 

I remember hearing a man say that he had life insurance, because he wanted his wife and family to be taken care of if anything happened to him. I asked him if he trusted God to take care of him and he said he did and then I asked if he left this earth wouldn’t the same God still be here to take care of his wife and family. As usual, when a man is presented with a different view of something, he stopped thinking straight and began to defend his position.

 

If you disregard the idea that buying insurance is an attempt to foil God and only consider it as a benefit to mankind, you should be able to see that it really is only a business. The main goal of insurance companies is to make a profit; not to help those in need. Helping those in need is the idea they use to sell their product though it is not really their main goal.

 

The idea of insurance is to create a pool in which to draw from when a disaster strikes, but in reality the money, that is paid to the companies, is used to pay the employees of the company, and then when a disaster strikes the bottom line becomes the most important consideration for the company. Those who trust in their insurance seldom get what they think they paid for. I suppose that is proper treatment for those who put their trust in insurance, but it is still hard to take.

 

I have heard my brothers in Christ speak rather sharply about other brothers that did not have insurance. They say “Why should I help those who did not buy insurance for such a time?”  Well, all I have to say about that is “Keep your money, God would not want you to spend any of “your” money to help another brother; not with that kind of altitude.” Then I wonder why anyone would give their money to a worldly company every month instead of putting it in a savings account for an emergency! The money spent on insurance is gone with no return unless there is a disaster and the money in a savings account is there generating more. Well it use to generate more, before the government destroyed the economy.  

 

I know you’re wondering if I have insurance. Well, yes I do! One can not drive a car in this country unless they have insurance. The government has decreed that I must buy those services from a business in order to drive. That has given those companies the leverage to charge anything they desire for their product: and they do.

 

That is the same thing government mandated health insurance will do. That is why politicians are all in favor of it!   ‘There is money in them thar hills!’

 

The bottom line is that you can put your trust in God, or put your trust in yourself and your dollar; that other master. The end result is when you leave this earth you leave the other master here, but if your trust is in God your master never leaves you.

 

Put that rock down and think about what I said first. I doubt if you can hit me from there anyway.

 

 

 

67 Responses to WHY DO WE BUY INSURANCE?

  1. Russ says:

    Why did Jerusalem have a wall around it? Why did God bless Israel as Nehemiah rebuilt the wall?

  2. Mike says:

    Question: We know government is under God’s authority; Insurance is mandated by the government; Are we not thereby allowed to purchase it, or is it an institution developed by man?

    I’m reminded of the old joke about the flood waters, and God telling the man, “I sent you a neighbor, then a boat, and finally a helicopter, but you didn’t listen”.

    How do we distinguish man-made inventions from holy tools inspired by God? I don’t know…

    When I read your post, my immediate thought was, “Wow, I wish I had that faith”. Then the doubt struck. Now, confusion…. 🙂

    Thanks for a great thought-provoking article!

  3. Jim says:

    I really enjoyed reading this post. I was in a high placed fully covered all kinds of benefits kind of job 7 years ago, then I was laid off. Due to various circumstances I found it very challenging to find a replacement job so I struck off on my own.

    The financial challenges were huge, especially since I live outside NYC where expense is staggering. So, being a man of faith I prioritized my expenses and paid the most important ones. Needless to say insurance beyond what is mandated by the government and my lean holders was a luxury I could not afford and therefore I have been insurance free for the past seven years.

    I could not believe how many good Godly brothers in Christ said I was playing a dangerous game not having my family ( of 5 ) covered. In recent years my detractors have laid off either because they are sick of my response, or they are starting to see the principle I speak of in action. My response has always been that my life and the life of my family is in the hands of God. God knows how much my bills are, God knows how much insurance is. If God wanted me to have insurance, He would make sure I have enough money left over after paying the bills. Since God has choosen to meet my needs (ie. supply the finances to pay mandatory living expense bills) and very little above that then I must accept it by faith that God has my back and that of my family. God has continued to provide my basic needs for 7 years. And God has protected the health of my family, we have never had a healthier set of years.

    As for my home, well, I have a mortgage and the bank doesn’t have my God, so, they resort to mandatory home owners coverage or I face the full bill for my house. As for my cars, also still financed and they require a higher level of coverage than that mandated by NJ.

    Now I face a different set of circumstances. God has provided a regular job with regular income in a different part of the country. And the job comes with full benefits so long as I pay my part ( a fraction of the full cost of coverage ) So reading your post did make me think. Am I throwing away the faith that God has so carefully cultivated in me and my family over the past 7 years if I accept my portion of these benefits? Honestly, I think not. God does provide our needs in different ways.

    I like Russ’s comment about the walls of Jerusalem. I’m reminded of the early church and how they had the symbol of the fish to show that they were a Christian because they were facing persecution, torture, and even death for their faith and were therefore meeting in secret. Was that a lack of faith in God? If it was, why did God continue to protect them so that today we can live our faith in open?

    And Mike’s comment about the old God’s provision joke, we can’t be deceived into a dumb and blind faith. I can take the faith in God concept all the way to the heck with working, God will provide. Or how about, darn, I cut my foot off, forget about the hospital, God will heal me. God does use all of creation, including the inventions of man to bring Himself glory.

    So, as to the benefits available at the job I am soon to start, I’m going to accept them and pay for them gladly, thanking God for protecting my families heath over the past 7 years by keeping us healthy, then thanking God for providing a new benefit that I have to pay so little of since my new employer is willing to pay the lions share. I need to be a good steward of what God has given me, my money, my talents, my gifts, my family, my church, my job, my country.

    Oh, and remember the foolish servant, he buried his talent in the ground fearful of losing his masters money. And we all know his reward…

  4. astudent says:

    Russ,
    Man those are good questions. I have wondered about why Israel had to fight wars also. Building a wall around Jerusalem when God said He would protect them just seems wrong.

    I reached the conclusion that Israel didn’t have to go to war at all if they had believed God in the first place. God said “He” would drive out all that lived in the land (Exo 23:27-31) He didn’t say they had to. He even told them how He would accomplish it.
    If you think about it no one had to die, nor would it have been necessary to even draw a sword.

    However when Israel didn’t believe God then He had no choice but to allow them to go to war. Although He still blessed them, they had to build walls, because they didn’t do as He said and let some of those who were not Israel live in the land.

    He had to bless Israel, because He said He would; just as He still blesses us, though we sin.

    Mike,
    I really like these questions. They show some deep thought about the subject and that is what we all need.

    You say that government is under God’s authority and I agree, but everything is under God’s authority and yet God does not stop sin.

    I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you are implying that because government is under the authority of God that what it does is without sin.

    I would say that both, this government and insurance are institutions developed by man.

    Romans 13:1&2 say that if one rebels against the governing authorities, they are rebelling against what God has established and that is what the Founding Fathers did. That, it seems to me, makes this government an institution developed by man. Just because God blessed this country doesn’t make this form of government right.

    I have to admit that it amazes me that very few will admit the truth that this government was never God’s idea! It seems as though everyone just stops reasoning when I say this!

    While I am at it, the joke is also man made. It was funny, but only because we all know we would jump on the first boat available and anything else would be so ridicules it is funny: whether the guy was waiting on God, or a submarine.

    Anyway I believe we can distinguish man made inventions from what God would have us do by careful thought comparing the Bible to everything. If you think about it the only holy tool inspired by God that we have is the Bible and I might add the only one we need.

    The truth is we do not need blind faith in which to base an understanding of insurance. Just get your pencil out and do the math. How much do you spend on all of your insurance? Consider all of the people that are spending that amount every month and you begin to understand how much the insurance industry is collecting and then consider how much power can be bought with it!

    While you are considering think about all of the people around New Orleans that didn’t get what they paid for because the insurance industry claimed water damage when, though it was water damage, it was caused by the wind.

    Have you ever wondered where all the money came from to advertise the so called danger of second hand smoke? Or who would have anything to gain from the demise of the tobacco industry? Or why it is so important to claim straight wind damage? Then there is the push for eliminating trans-fats. If you want to understand these things follow the money. Who has anything to gain from these things? Do you really think there is someone, or a group of someones, that are spending the kind of money it takes to “educate” the public with nothing to gain from it?

    Consider the bottom line of the insurance companies, because they sure do.

    I take no credit for a great amount of faith. After considering the insurance industry it takes only a small amount of faith to shun it.

    Insurance is one of the industries that sells only a mirage. The insurance industry sells peace of mind, but seldom delivers, just as the lottery sells the illusion of wealth, and the pornographic industry sells the delusion of sex.

    Insurance exists because of worry, the lottery because of greed, and the pornographic industry because of lust; and all are sins.

    It might surprise you, but I am not pleased with my post. There are many Christians that earn a living in the insurance industry and they haven’t even considered that insurance is a worldly business. I apologies to them for even bringing it up. In their defense I don’t know any business that is not in some way evil. Even those who make shoes make an item that must be removed to stand before God.

  5. Russ says:

    astudent,

    I respectfully disagree.

    I have lived with insurance and without. When I was living without insurance, I would complain to myself when I heard an ad for insurance on Christian radio… I would say to myself, “why don’t they just trust God…” I thought that I was being spiritual. In fact, I was being prideful.

    I have come to the conclusion that insurance can be a blessing from God, not a lack of faith. God promises to provide for all our needs. Yet, we go to work each day to earn our pay. Why not stay at home and wait in faith for His blessing?

    If you have insurance, PRIASE THE LORD for it. Look upon it as a blessing and not a lack of faith. God has provided it for you because He loves you. Don’t let God’s blessing become a curse.

    … nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving… [1 tit 4:4]

    Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. [Rom 14:22]

    But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin. [Rom 14:23]

    God loves to bless his children. It was the dark ages of Catholicism that taught a life lived in denial and poverty was the only way of pleasing to God.

    Brothers and sisters, bless God for all that He has blessed us with – including our insurance. If you receive it with thanksgiving, God is honored and blessed – but to lay a heavy trip on people because God has chosen to bless them by providing for them – even through insurance – is a burden that none of us should be required bear.

    For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. [Acts 15:28,29]

  6. astudent says:

    I would like to thank everyone for the comments. I have enjoyed reading them. My goal is to learn all that I can about God and what He wants from me. I have found others have thoughts that I have not had. You broaden my understanding as I hope I broaden yours.

    Jim and Russ,

    I really enjoyed your comments: probably more than you enjoyed my post.

    You certainly are men of faith. I have had many thoughts because of your comments. I no longer am responsible for anyone but myself, so it makes it much easer for me to evaluate insurance than someone in your position.

    Now, here is some information that will amuse some and anger some, but it is the truth and because I believe the truth is of the most importance I will tell it.

    When I wrote about my own insurance I implied that I only had auto insurance. That is the only insurance that I have bought for the last 40 years that was not required by another party to protect their interest. That was their insurance which I had to pay for: not my insurance. However when I applied for Social Security I did so over the phone. I talked to two or three very nice people and the person that was actually handling the paper work suggested that I take insurance. Well, I didn’t think it out and I took it. I did not mean to misrepresent myself and I apologize for implying that I did not have any other insurance. I receive one or two statements a year from them and I have direct deposit of the funds, so I just didn’t think about it. If you think I purposely misrepresented myself then you must wonder why I said anything at all.

    Am I going to stop it? Well, probably not, because that would rock the boat with the government. I foresee problems trying to straighten it out. It is a hard thing trying to resolve a problem with a business and the government is a big business. Besides they need many people that are not sick paying premiums to off set those who are sick. In other words, my trust is in God though I have insurance and I believe all those who have commented share the same belief, whether you feel insurance is wrong or not.

    Does that change anything that I said about insurance? NO. It only points out that I am a sinner. I was a sinner that was in need of a Savior when I accepted Jesus as my Savior, and I am still a sinner, and I still need Jesus. When I accepted Jesus it was not a magical moment when I was changed from a sinner to someone who is pure. It was a magical moment where God gave me His Spirit and guaranteed me salvation, but I am still a sinner and I still need Jesus.

    This is no revelation to me and your sin should not be one to you. We all still sin. There is a test for any who do not believe they still sin. Sell all you have, give it to the poor and then follow Jesus. Did you pass the test? I have not and I know that I do not have enough faith to even try.

    As far as insurance being a gift from God, I would agree that God can, and does, use our sin to bless us and show Himself righteous, but that does not change sin and make sin right. Putting your trust in anything, or anyone, other than God is a sin.

    God knows our health. He knows when we are getting sick even before we do. He can stop the process, or He can wait until we get sick and then heal us. I am a simple minded man and I can’t understand why He would give us a third party system that would detract from His glory. Especially a system where only those who could afford it would receive His blessing of healing! If insurance were from God, blessings would be a business, and you could buy them.

    I guess the bottom line, as I see it, is we buy insurance to calm our worries. Worries are a sin and it seems to me that if we feel that we need insurance from something, or someone, other than God, we are only trading one sin for another. Though it may well be better for some to have insurance than to worry about those they feel responsible for.

    Now just to get the record straight. I am not laying a heavy burden on anyone. If you feel such a burden it is not my fault. If we can not talk about a subject, all ways of looking at that subject, then we can not have a study.

    Acts 15:28&29 does not say that one is doing “everything” that is good, only that to do those things is doing well. There is much more than those things mentioned that, when done, are doing well. Also I might add that those verses were written for the benefit of Gentiles that were just turning to God, not to those who have turned and are in the process of maturing.

    “O”, one more thing. We know we can not just sit and wait on God’s blessings. (Ephesians 4:28, Colossians 3:23, 1 Thessalonians 4:11&12, 2 Thessalonians 3:6-12)

    OK, one more, one more thing. It seems to me that a Christian should not need insurance from non believers. The church should be the provider. Why can’t the church have a pool of money collected and saved for any member that is faced with a disaster? Then there would be no question if God was providing or not. It should be possible if private companies can pay the help and make a profit.

    I see some possible problems. The insurance industry would be trying to stop it any way they could.

    I could be wrong, but this seems so right that I think God meant the church to be our insurance company. It fits the second Royal Law “Do to others as you would have them do to you”. If we “The Church” made arrangements to take care of our own, there would be no questions about buying insurance.

    The question should not be “Why do we buy insurance”, but “Who is your insurance company?”

  7. Tony says:

    “I see some possible problems. The insurance industry would be trying to stop it any way they could.”

    They can’t.

    The problem you face is when you need to pull $20,000 from an account that only has $10,000. The insurance companies play the numbers game, unless everyone claims at the same time they always have enough cash to pay out.

    Then they up *everyones* premiums to balance it out again!

  8. astudent says:

    I wouldn’t count them out. They just about have all smoking stopped and 15 years ago I would have bet it was not possible. Anyway, if they perceived Church insurance as a threat to their business I have no doubt that they would try to stop it. That doesn’t mean I believe the outcome to be guaranteed.

    I agree with your view that they play the numbers game. However it is somewhat less than honest not to make that fact known. By the way the numbers game isn’t working for those who are caught in a major disaster. Many are not getting what they think they paid for, but the president of the company is still getting his money.

  9. Praveen says:

    Proverbs 13:22

    A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children, but the sinner’s wealth is laid up for the righteous.

    1 Timothy 5:8

    But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

  10. astudent says:

    Praveen,
    Insurance is a wager between someone and the insurance company about when that someone will die.
    BET n. – An agreement usually between two parties that the one who has made an incorrect prediction about an uncertain outcome will forfeit something stipulated to the other; a wager. (American Heritage Dictionary)
    INSURANCE – Coverage by a contract binding a party to indemnify another against specified loss in return for premiums paid. (American Heritage Dictionary)
    An inheritance is wealth that has been accumulated by someone, not a wager. A wager is not something earned. Insurance is not just a bet about when someone will die, but it is a bet against one’s self.

    I do not believe that God expects anyone to provide for others after death. God knows when someone will die and God is still there to provide for those who were that person’s family. When a man dies his wife is no longer considered married. I don’t think God considers anyone a member of that man’s household, because that man no longer has a household. Do you think a man can deny his faith after his death?

    What does a good man leave as an inheritance? Money or a good name? (Prov 22:1 NIV) A good name is more desirable than great riches; to be esteemed is better than silver or gold. This world views an inheritance as money or wealth in worldly things, but I believe God views true inheritance as spiritual wealth. A good example to one’s children is worth more than silver or gold and it has a good chance of being passed on to one’s grandchildren. As for me, I would rather leave a good example than an insurance claim.

    It is said that one can not serve both God and money. Insurance is an attempt to make life easer on those who are left behind, but is life supposed to be easy? Is it good to be rich? I have seen large amounts of wealth suddenly gained cause more problems than it solved, but a good example has never caused a problem.

    Before someone tells of a good example causing a problem let me say this: if it did cause a problem, a problem needed causing!

    Consider
    (Mat 6:25-34 NIV) “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
    Don’t you see that insurance is a result of worry?

  11. Michael says:

    I do not have insurance because I worry. I have auto insurance because it is mandated by law in my State. I would have liability insurance even if it wasn’t mandated because I do not think I would be ‘loving’ my neighbor by hitting his car and having no means for him to be restored.

    In regards to Life Insurance, Christians are called to care for the fatherless and widowed..and although insurance companies didn’t exist when the bible was written…a portion of tithe was used for these purposes. I think of insurance premium as payments that will go to the widowed and fatherless. (Not as a substitute for tithe, of course.) All insurance can be looked at as giving to others in their time of need.

    The problem I sense that you have with it is that we are buying insurance for fear or worry. I don’t disagree with that premise, but if it’s done through faith for the purpose of supporting others who are orphaned or widowed then I believe it is righteous.

    Insurance companies are not perfect, nor necessarily God ordained, but God doesn’t always pick ‘godly’ vessels to perform his will. Can you see how God’s desire to have widows and orphans supported is being fulfilled through life insurance? Or does it have to come from the church for you to support it?

    When complaints arose about widows being overlooked in the daily serving of food, the church spiritual leaders were removed from the serving of food in Hebrews 6:1-2. “…It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve the tables…”

    If the early church elders saw fit to leave the ‘administrative’ tasks to other men (albeit, still Christians) I don’t see how life insurance can be condemned.

  12. Michael says:

    Is saving/investing on the same level as insurance? A product of lack of faith/worry?

    If so, how does the story of Joseph and the Pharoah’s dream move your spirit? What need was there to store up food for seven years, if God tells us not to worry?

    I think you might be mistaking worry, for Godly wisdom.

  13. astudent says:

    Michael,

    As I said, I also have auto insurance because it is required by law. Insurance companies have been able to finagle the government into demanding that we purchase their product by law. Requiring citizens to buy their product in order to protect others was only the first step the second step is to require us, by law to purchase insurance to cover ourselves. That is being attempted today with this health insurance scam that the government is pushing. If you want to understand why things are happening just follow the money. Ask yourself who has anything to gain from what is being proposed. These things can happen because most people worship money instead of God. Those that worship money are enslaved by it.

    As far as worry is concerned I would ask you why anyone would buy insurance if they were not worried about something that “might” happen in the future? Would you buy insurance if you were not worried about hitting someone with your auto? If someone is worried about injury from any disaster then shouldn’t they buy their own insurance?

    It sometimes helps to understand a situation if one thinks in extremes. If I should feel obligated to purchase insurance to cover others when I drive my car then shouldn’t I also be obligated to have it when I walk? What if I step out in front of some poor mother that is driving her children to school and in order to miss me she wrecks her car and injures herself and her children?

    Michael, insurance is only a business. It exists in order to make a profit. It is a result of this worlds desire to accumulate money. One who puts their faith in insurance has just removed, or moved it from God! “O” we can say that God has given us the money to buy it, or God has allowed it to exist because He wants us to have it, but He also allows banks to be robbed!

    I have wrestled with the question of what would happen to those who are left in this world if the man of the house is called home (dies the first death) and I finally reached the conclusion that the same God that loves and protected me while I am here will still be here protecting those that are left when I go. God owns everything. He is the insurance company and He doesn’t take anything out of the fund to support Himself.

    No saving and investment is not on the same level as insurance. Whatever we have should be earned and enjoyed because God has given it or rather loaned to us. I believe we should let God give to whomever He chooses when we leave this earth. If we do not give what we have earned to insurance companies then we might be able to leave some actual cash and property to those that we care about. That is if the wonderful government doesn’t take it all in taxes.

    Joseph was in no way worried about the future. God told him what the future had in store for Egypt and how He wanted Joseph to handle the problem. I don’t think that equates to insurance in any way.

    I am not mistaking worry for Godly wisdom at all. God says do not worry and I only tried to understand why He would make such a statement.

    (Jer 17:7&8 NIV) “But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him. He will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green. It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit.”

    I will buy insurance when trees do; or the law makes me!

  14. yyuan says:

    Hi Astudent,

    I think you need to learn more about the insurance products. Instead of being too idealistic about your bible verse, let’s focus on the benefit of having the life insurance.

    Nowadays, the life insurance products have changed. -Life Insurance products can provide the cash value that later can be used for your retirement income.

    -Permanent type of Life Insurance can give you higher interest than most of the bank in the US can give you.

    -If you structure it properly, after 10 to 20 years putting your money, the growth of the accumulation value will be enough to pay the premium by itself for the rest of your life. Which means you have a “lifetime” life insurance.

    -It has the tax advantage feature on its accumulation value and its cash value. (something like a Tax Free money when you pull it out of your account for your retirement income, down payment of a second mortgage, buying a new car or boat, or even as a gift donation to your church)

    How about you contribute 10% of your income to life insurance.

    And when you die, you can give the benefit to the charity or your beloved church. It’s a good idea isn’t it?

    e.g.
    In a Life Insurance with a Return on Premium rider (assuming you are healthy and early 30’s)

    you put only about 100$ a month for 30 years and if you die within those 30 years, your church will get $500,000.-

    BUT If you you don’t die, then all the money you put will be returned back to you.

    And if you do the math, the amount of the 10% of your income to contribute into the life insurance products is much lower than the amount of money the insurance company have to give to the beneficiary.

    30x12x$100 (contribution) VS $500,000 (benefits for the church)

    And if nothing happen to you, when you retire from the job, you just take the cash value for yourself. And you decide which church you want to donate that $36,000.

    -Moreover, you implied that buying a Life insurance will lead you to commit a sin of gambling right?

    How about this?

    Do you want to have a US$2,000,000.- Life insurance policy, and for this policy, you don’t have to pay a penny for it? (And since you are the owner of the policy, then you decide who the beneficiary will be)

    Will you commit this type of sin of gambling?

    If I were you, I would. For this type of sin of gambling, I’d rather being an atheist, and I can donate the benefits to help the poor fatherless motherless children rather than being a “blind” religious person that using all the bible verse just to support the false understanding.

    Astudent. What I’m trying to say is that a lot of people are lacking of knowledge about the insurance products. And the sad part, they began to use the bible verse for their reasoning just to cover them from lack of knowledge about insurance.

  15. astudent says:

    yyuan,

    You say that Christians only lack knowledge about the insurance business, but I am not buying that. The problem I have with insurance is that I am supposed to rely on it instead of God.

    As an atheist you cannot understand my views. If I were an atheist I could not understand someone putting their trust in God when I did not even believe there was a God.

    You only believe in money and I am not saying that to belittle you. It is only logical to put your trust in money if you do not believe there is a real God.

    Insurance does not save anyone. It may help to prolong a life, but to a believer that is not really a blessing. However at some point everyone must die: even the believer.

    I have seen insurance actually be the root cause of the early death of more than one person. Because they had insurance they went to the doctor for a minor problem, and because they had insurance the doctor sent them to the hospital for some tests, and because they had insurance they were operated on and they died from complications. Insurance actually was the root cause of their death, because without it they wouldn’t even have taken the first step.

    You think money brings happiness and security so you think that someone I choose would be better off for receiving a fortune, but who am I to determine someone should be wealthy? How many people, who have won the lottery, have been found happy after the initial euphoria has worn off? Great wealth brings great problems.

    You say a few things that do not make sense to me. In order to pay more interest than a bank, insurance companies have to make higher risk investments and they did. A lot of that paper became worthless when the stock market crashed. How can the insurance companies honor their commitments? I don’t think you understand that putting one’s trust in insurance companies is actually putting your trust in man and not God. Man cannot see the future so investments are not rock solid.

    Insurance companies are in business to make money. That is the basic and only reason they exist. If they do not make money they will cease to exist. All the talk about helping someone is just that; only talk.

    Perhaps I am wrong, but you sound like an insurance salesman. I hope you are not selling health insurance, because insurance has found a way to eliminate all of the salesman. They also no longer have to worry about losing any more law suits, because the government is responsible for the type and quality of treatment; and who can sue the government? Those that wanted tort reform just got their wish!

    The proper business of government is protecting the citizens. If the insurance companies cheat those that purchase their product, the government is suppose to be neutral and determine guilt, but the government is no longer neutral, they are the insurance company and there is no longer any protection from fraud.

    Insurance companies are not out of business, they have engineered a system where the law makes you buy their product! They do not even have to pay for enforcement: we do!

    I remember when auto insurance was optional and it was supposed to cost less when everyone was forced to buy it. It doesn’t, it only made it mandatory and gave license for the insurance companies to charge what ever they want.

    I also can remember when the government gave a little protection to those that have to pay for utilities! Those days are over. It is just another successful scheme of those who worship money and not God.

    Sorry I got a little off the subject, but it all just runs together.

    There really is a God and if you search for understanding with truth you will find it. If you do not search honestly then of course you will not find it. If you find truth you will understand that I am not using the Bible to cover ignorance, but to understand the world and I will not seem so stupid at all!

  16. yyuan says:

    astudent,

    Please read the last paragraph of my first writing.

    I’m not saying all Christian are lack of knowledge about insurance. I said many people are lack of knowledge about insurance. That leads to the meaning that, they are not only Christian people, but also atheist people who are lack of knowledge about insurance.

    But the sad part about the Christian who lack of knowledge about insurance, Many of them, but not all, are using the bible verses to cover up their ignorance.

    Instead, they are suppose to be humble and study more about it and be happy with it and pray for it so that the insurance products will do more help than damage to the society. Am I right or right?

    Anything in this world is like a knife, son. You can use it for the good thing, helping you cook and create delicious dishes. Or use it to kill people. You can also use bible to drive people do suicide. There are suicide cult around the world that uses christian bible to approve what they are doing.

    FYI, another fact that you may want to think about, I know some local priests or preachers who own life insurance products and when they die, they give the benefit to the institution that help fatherless and motherless children’s education. So are you saying they do a “gambling” sin and has to be stopped? I say that they are doing a noble thing.

    (regarding your complain about the health insurance and government)

    A lot of people abuse the system in the insurance. Just like a lot of people abuse the christian teachings. These bad people “punish” the good believers and the teachings’s credibility. A little shit in a big jar of milk will spoil the whole milk’s taste.

    Let me ask you this. I believe that You ever come across some news about new churches that promotes sex orgy. (If not, just google it… you will find articles or video clip about it). The fact is that The priests of those churches are using Christian bible verse for sex orgy. How about the fact of the previous example that I share to you about suicide cult that use christian bible.

    Can I say the Christian bible is bad, and because of this you better read a Buddhist Bible? Of course not, right?

    The same as in the insurance industry. The bad people do Insurance Frauds. These Frauds kills good people like you financially. Can I say the insurance itself a bad thing? Of course not.

    In the case of the fraud in the health insurance industry. There are many doctors who charge the insurance companies that they are not suppose to charge in the billing. (Fraud)

    How? Here it is. Imagine there is a patient who has “A” disease. To cure “A” disease, the doctor needs to perform ONLY “A” treatment.

    But, the doctor mingled the “AX” treatment together with “A”. Moreover, the doctor maybe use extra medicine for “A+” treatment to cure “A” disease.

    Now, lets do the math. If the treatment cost of “A” = 1000$, the cost of “AX” = 1000$, and the cost of “A+” =1000$. Then you can easily conclude that the total cost is three times the actual cost supposed to be.

    This cost is being charge to the insurance companies. How much do you have to pay? just a fraction of it. But unfortunately, Your “Fraction cost” 3 times more expensive than it used to be.

    So I hope you understand why the insurance premium is getting more expensive recently.

    I assume you live in the USA. And just so let you know, the premium pricing is “audited” by the Dept of Insurance of each state.

    If you don’t like your insurance premium, then vote for the right people that care about you. So that he or she can help you in your situation regarding the insurance.

    Or instead of complaining, why don’t you become the head of Insurance Departement and be the servant leader for your people in the insurance industry.

    Does the Department of Insurance fight the fraud. Yes they are fighting for it. You can open their website and read their news bulletin.

    Let me share a little bit of knowledge about insurance. Insurance is based on the Law of Large Number. And the insurance products are also made to reduce the financial risk due to many things happened these days.

    Please note that, Reduce does NOT mean Remove everything. And one the concept of insurance is that it cannot be used for profit. But it is used to pay off all the expenses JUST to return it to its previous condition.

    To keep it simple, If you buy a new car and the market price for it is $10,000.- And you got accident. The insurance will pay you to fix it no more than $10,000.-

    But if the cost to fix it is more than $10,000.- mind as well the insurance company just give you the money to get a new one isn’t it?

    If you ask people who went to hospital and being cured there. I bet that they feel blessed of having the insurance that help them pay most of the cost of treatment. Just do the math, how much is your annual premium VS if you got a heart surgery, how much it cost you in the hospital.

    Regarding the Life insurance product that give you bigger interest than most of the banks. It doesn’t make sense to you does it? But hey, it’s the fact. Why don’t you go to some insurance companies… repeat some insurance companies… and do more research about it before you say things that make you looked like an ignorant.

    Oh I forgot. In the insurance, Not only the interest is bigger, one of it’s features is tax advantage. Let me share you about the meaning of tax advantage (some kind of tax deferred plus plus). I hope you are good in basic math.

    If you have money $1 and it doubles every year. At the 20th year, your money will be about $ 1 million.

    But if you have to pay the tax 33.33% annually on that. Guess what??? At the 20th year, your money will be ONLY about $28,000.-

    I bet you don’t like it when your bad government impose tax on you, but it doesn’t do a good service to you.

    But hey… here is the “plus plus” part of that tax advantage in the Life insurance product.

    With the insurance feature, not only your money in the “growing stage” without having to pay tax annualy, but also you can structure it in a way that when you get your money or “harvesting stage”, you don’t pay the tax, legally. Ask your CPA how to structure that.

    For sure sure sure, regardless what happened in this world, even if Jesus or Buddha come visit you Right now, you still have to pay the tax on the interest income you got from the bank. Luckily, it’s NOT from the insurance.

    Now, if you hate the bad government, you should appreciate what the insurance can do to help your family financially. And if you believe in God, then you should appreciate what God do in this world to help your financial situation through the insurance product.

    Last but not least, if you ask your God for a success in your math exam, God wants you to contribute your effort by study hard to pass that exam, Am I right?

    And So does In the insurance world, you need to contribute your effort in the form of monthly premium as a commitment.

    There is no such thing as a free lunch my friend. Either it’s from your pocket, or your follower’s pocket, your friend’s pocket, somebody, somewhere, somehow has to pay for it.

  17. yyuan says:

    astudent,

    Oh I almost forgot…

    Regarding your statement about me only believing in money. And money doesn’t bring happiness.

    I guess you miss the point about my opinion regarding insurance.

    You are absolutely right that money doesn’t bring happiness. Because happiness comes from within. So you better becareful of what you think. It becomes words. Becareful of your words, they become actions. Becareful of your actions, they become habits. Becareful of your habits, they become your characters. Becareful of your characters, they become your destiny.

    Back to the topic of money money money…
    Insurance is not build to recover your life or health. The product is build to recover “the cost”. When we talk about cost, it relates to money.

    You may think of me about worshiping money as my God. But at the same time, you cannot hide from the reality that money is an important part for you and it includes your church that asking your money every week.

    That’s why I said to you in my first writing, I better be an atheist that get the big chunck of money from the insurance company. So that I can use the money to give it to the poor, help them go to school.

    It may sounds I’m buying the happiness with money isn’t it? But who cares… At the end of the day, I can do a lot lot lot of good things to many poor people. But of course, it starts from my family. They are number one, then other people.

    Let me share some inputs:
    In general, there are 2 main reasons and 2 hidden reason people don’t buy insurance. Two hidden reasons is in the sense that they will not show to you or tell you upfront for the sake of their pride.

    Main Reasons, They are:
    1.The customer don’t trust the agent.
    2.The customer don’t understand about insurance.

    2 hidden reasons are:
    1.The customer don’t have money.
    2.The customer don’t have a good relationship between husband and wife or family relationship.

    That’s why in my first writing, I am just guessing that you don’t understand about insurance.

    But now, in your writings that if you complain about your car insurance premium, health care cost and government…, I’m guessing that right now you don’t have money. In the sense that you just have enough money to pay your daily expenses. Living paycheck to paycheck.

    For rich people they could careless paying extra $1000 a month for the insurance. It’s peanuts for them. I’ve seen some people are paying $15,000.- a MONTH just for the insurance. And they understand the benefit of having the insurance. And they have several insurance policies, while the poor have none.

    The sad part, many of the poor people, instead of learning how to improve their financial situation, they live in denial and reasoning that money don’t make people happy.

    But regardless of what the poor people do, if they keep reasoning and living in denial in their reality, at the end of the day, they still don’t know what they don’t know. If things like this keep happening, then Who lose at this point?

    And when the poor gets poorer and the rich gets richer, please don’t blame other people. At this point, the fact they gets poorer maybe… I said MAYBE… it is because they are living in denial.

    I hope you don’t feel being offended with the above paragraphs.

    let me answer my own paragraphs.

    To tell you the truth, living paycheck to paycheck and high debt, actually it’s the problem of most people in the US right now.

    Don’t you see some people in the US, even if they won the lottery, they cannot manage their money, and they still lose everything. Absurd isn’t it?

    The problems is not because of the insurance companies or governments. The problem is in the education system. Most of the schools in the US are teaching people to get a better job.

    But very little of them are teaching about financial education. They teach you how to manage your company’s money, but NOT your money. Sad but true.

    Who manage the education system in the US? I guess the government take a big part of it. Who vote for your government? Your people isn’t it? So next time, you better vote for the servant leader. But don’t complain, be the pioneer, make a change or you become one and make a good public policy and regulations.

    But regardless, if you understand about insurance, you understand one of the important financial tools that can be used to build up your financial situation.

  18. astudent says:

    yyuan,

    I see you have thought much about your answers and that is good. Actually I agree with much of what you have said. Most things can be used for good or bad, people do abuse Christian teaching and one should be careful of what he or she thinks as it does lead to words, and then to actions, and habits, and all combine to build character.

    We think differently because the very basic core that we start from is different. I base my thinking on a spiritual base. As an atheist you base your thinking on a worldly base. Please don’t think that I am trying to make myself appear superior to you when I say that you can not understand what I say, actually I did not say it, I am only paraphrasing what God said. (1 Cor 2:12-14 NIV) “We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

    It limits what I can explain and it is very frustrating, because I am not limited as to any understanding about worldly things. I did not always have the Mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16) and I remember what I thought and why I thought it. Before I knew God it seemed logical and right to me.

    To the natural man money is the most important thing in his life. Money, unlike an idol, actually has power to grant temporary happiness. So not understanding the basic things of God, money just naturally becomes what men think of most.

    You see, you almost identified our problem when you said Christians lack knowledge about insurance. You just got it backwards, atheist lack knowledge about Christians.

    Let me illustrate, but I warn you it will seem like foolishness to you. You cite priests and preachers that buy life insurance and the beneficiaries are orphans. That sounds good to the natural man, but not so good to one who understands from a spiritual base.

    You see the Bible makes it clear the God should get credit for helping those orphans, but the world will give the credit to priests and insurance. I have to wonder how many people would have turned to God if the money was used to feed the poor and educate orphans instead of used to buy insurance for those in the future that did not need help yet and may not need by the time the benefits are paid. Why not help those who need help now, when they need it and when you know who they are? The man that is lost in the desert needs directions and a glass of water right then; not a 55 gallon drum of water and a car with a GPS unit later.

    Please do not blame God or even others for what men, posing as men of God, do. Anyone that uses their position in the Church to sin in any way should begin their prison ministry immediately. They deserve the punishment of men, but they do not always receive it. God will not forget. But even they can be saved. (I told you it would seem foolish, didn’t I)

    I have said “It is only money and money is not important” many times over. It is only necessary to have money in order to pay ones bills and we should not create many unnecessary bills.

    It is very important to me that I place my faith and confidence in God and God only. Not in money, or insurance, or anything in this world. It would not please God if I did so and I do want to please God.

    We are placed on this earth to test us. Risk is necessary for that test. Insurance is only an attempt by man to foil God’s plan. The only thing of lasting importance is passing the test. Money is part of the test. Which is more important to the person, money or the One that owns it all? Which is more important to you? God does want everyone to study for an exam, but math is not important, it is God’s judgment that is important. I realize that you do not believe there is a God, but reality does not rely on belief.

    I believe you are very wrong about ‘no such thing as a free lunch’! I paid nothing for my life, mind, body, health, parents, water to drink, air to breath, etc, etc, etc. Actually, there is no such thing as really paying for something. Everything here is God’s and I own nothing. If I have a dollar in my possession it is not really mine. If I earn a dollar I use the mind and hands that were a free gift from God, so how could I really pay for anything? Doesn’t God, if He made everything from his own possessions, own everything? What would I pay with? Gold? God already owns all of it and it has no value to Him!

    You say thoughts lead to words and words to actions and you are correct. Look at your own comments and see that your thoughts are only about money. I am not trying to alienate you. You have spent much time and effort to teach me about insurance and you are right about what you say. I thank you for your efforts and I am sorry that I can not explain myself without sounding foolish, but it is God that will not allow it.

    By the way the people do vote for our leaders and they think they vote for servants when actually they choose masters. It is a simple thing to know that you can not know what is in another man’s heart. But somehow we are supposed to know who will be the best man for the job and we are supposed vote him into office. The truth of the matter is we just choose the best liar. Only God knows what is in a man’s heart and only God is qualified to choose leaders.

    Politicians are politicians for their own gain and because of that the common man’s financial situation will never improve: only decline. If insurance really did have the power to build up our financial situation politicians would only tax it until they received all of the profit and the common man’s situation would remain the same.

  19. astudent says:

    yyuan,

    As I reread your comments, I also found more to say.

    I like you. You have given me much to think about, but it only seems to reinforce what I believe instead of changing my mind! I have been around long enough to understand that if someone tells me something I have to wait a little while, until it becomes my idea and then I can agree. So you will have to wait until it becomes my idea, ha ha.

    You say the rich buy insurance and the poor can not afford it, but aren’t the poor the very ones that could benefit from it? Does the rich man that is paying $15,000 per month need insurance? That is $180,000 per year! If a man pays that for ten years he has thrown away $1,800,000! It would be a rare illness indeed that would require so much money to treat. Still thinking along those lines, the chance of recovery for such a disastrous illness would be slim to none. Actually the man would have more than $1,800,000, if he kept it, because of interest!

    Insurance is a wager. The insurance company is betting the man will not need a $1,800,000 return for his investment and they have the studies to back their bet. Not only are they pretty sure he will not need such a payback, but they have the power to deny payment for tests that might reveal a problem, or prolong his life. I am not saying they would, but the temptation is there. The employee that saves the company money is considered a good employee by any company and insurance is basically a company that is in business to make a profit. So there is pressure on the employee to deny claims, but of course it is never reveled or admitted.

    Rich or poor, it has been demonstrated to me many times that one should be in control of his or her own money and destiny. Giving someone else your money and then expecting them to return it when you need it has disappointed many. Been there; done that.

    Bottom line is everyone is going to die, whether or not they have insurance. If you look at it from a business standpoint (returns for investment), the man that puts his faith and trust in money, and or insurance and then dies can no longer collect any benefits from it, but the man that puts his faith and trust in God will reap never ending benefits; forever!

  20. yyuan says:

    hi astudent,

    Sorry I forgot to explain why the person I know, paid 15,000$ a month for insurance.

    It’s what he put in a permanent type of life insurance that gives him the interest more than the bank can give.

    At the same time, he doesn’t like to put this money on the stocks that fluctuates so great when there is an economic depression.

    Basically his tolerance for risky types of investment is not high.

    And then You mentioned about $1,8 M are wasted right? So this is what I mean by that many people are lack of knowledge about insurance.

    Let me explain the basic.
    Yes, If he pays the premium for 10 years lead to $1,8 million.

    But I guess what many people always forgot is that in the permanent type of life insurance, the $ 1,8 million later on will generate the interest income for him, so that he does NOT need to contribute the premium anymore for the rest of his life.

    And yet the insurance is still ACTIVE that still give the benefit at about $20 million if he die or even more.

    Now, Please don’t forget the CASH VALUE is different from BENEFIT. Repeat… the CASH VALUE. That $1,8 M contribution becomes the CASH VALUE. It doesn’t go to the pocket of insurance company just like that.

    That money basically becomes the base for his retirement money. Yet, he still getting the interest income.

    Can he pull out everything and cancel the policy? Yes he can.

    What if the cash value now grow up to $35 M but he still alive, Can he still pull out ALL OF that money? Yes he can pull out everything.

    How? Just cancel the policy.

    So with this, about your last paragraph “Bottom line… bla bla bla… then dies can no longer collect any benefits from it” I guess it’s not aplicable anymore. Because, that feature I just explained made an insurance accounts works as a saving accounts.

    So if he took out all the cash value, it’s fair enough if the insurance company doesn’t have to give the benefit anymore to his beneficary.

    FYI,
    Life Insurance is a ONE SIDED contract. In a sense that the insurance company CANNOT cancel the policy based on ANY REASONs, as long as the premium is paid. But the owner of the policy CAN cancel it anytime with ANY REASON, but limited to the 2 yrs Incontestability clause and 2 yrs Suicide clause and some other clauses.

    What is that clause about?
    First, If the owner lie about his health, income, asset or any condition when he apply for insurance, then the insurance company can cancel the policy within the first 2 years.

    This thing happened, for example if there is someone smoking and for the sake of getting a lower premium, he told the company that he doesn’t smoke for the past 5 years.

    Somehow the nicotine level disappear from the blood only in 2 weeks. So it’s hard to prove if he lies or not.

    But after a week of the policy is approved, he goes back to his smoking habits. And unfortunately, that guy die of lung cancer after 6 months having the insurance policy active.

    With this kind of fraud, the insurance company can deny of paying the benefits.

    HOWEVER, if that guy dies after 2 yrs of having the policy active, regardless the cause of death, even if that guy does a surgery on his dick and change it to become a woman, and later being killed while she is smoking and die in the different country…, the insurance company, BY LAW, still have to pay the benefit no matter what.
    😀

    Secondly, about the suicide clause, Your beneficiary cannot get the benefit if the insured suicide in the first 2 yrs. What if he suicide at 2 yrs + 1 day? Yes, the beneficiary can get the benefits. and No Tax.

    So, for people who think about suicide, I guess he needs to buy the insurance. 2 years have enough times for him to contemplate and think about what he is planning to do, many times people change their mind and want to live instead of suicide.

    So you see… insurance is one of the tools to prevent suicidal people… hehehehee….

    Back to the Cash Value topic. With the fact that you can take the cash value back, and If you still say that insurance is a gambling sin? Well, I guess you don’t have savings account that give you interest. Why?

    Don’t you realize, what the guy I mentioned putting $15K a month in the insurance company, his insurance account is just like a saving account isn’t it.

    $1,8 M is not wasted at all, my friend.

    Next thing about insurance. Basically he realized that the death tax in the US is almost about 50%.

    That means, Imagine if your total asset is 20 million dollar, when you die, then you probably have to liquidate some assets to pay the death tax to the government as much as $10 million before you can give it to your sons or daughters.

    Now let’s do the math. Your Initial total asset is $20 M, minus the Spending $1,8 M for the premium BUT getting a $20 M insurance benefits and minus $10 M for death tax. It will give your beneficiary, who, the churches, sons and daughters a positive amount as much as about $28 M.
    (20 – 1.8 + 20 – 10) = 28M

    A-Ha… interesting isn’t it??? you gain more than you have to pay the estate tax. (note that in USA, the Benefits from Insurance is not taxable)

    Now if I use your idea that don’t believe in the insurance. Let’s say you have total asset as much as $20 M… because you don’t have insurance, so when you die, you owe tax about $10 M, and how much it’s left? Only 10M
    (20 – 10 = 10M)

    Let me ask you question, If you can give 10 M to church and 28 M to church, which one do you prefer?

    Oh, I forgot to let you know, this guy have businesses. And at some point, the paid premium can be reported as the business expenses. It help him reduce his tax.

    On the small scale, middle income people can also use the similar strategy combined with their mortgage. See Last Chance Millionaire, by Douglas Andrew. I suggest you read that book as a tool to increase some knowledge about finance and insurance.

    While at the same time, he is getting something that can protect his assets and can continue his legacy more than if he doesn’t have insurance.

    Sounds too good to be true? hmmm… I guess you need to study more about insurance.

    Regarding the points you make about bad companies that don’t want to pay benefits. Then my suggestion to you is to find a solid credible company.

    OK, Next paragraphs, it’s a little bit off the main topic… but somehow I think I need to address it.

    If I turn the table back to you, in USA, there are more fake churches with fake people that use churches and bible verses for personal benefits than fake insurance companies that don’t pay benefit.

    How many people becomes the victim such as sex abuse by the leader of those fake churches? How many people die because of the war in the name of religions? I thought religions teach people about kindness, forgiveness, Don’t you see that Jesus teach people to love the family, brothers, friends and pray for enemies? but how come the so called religious people still kill people and many of them do sexual abuse to young boys recently?

    Don’t you see the news about bad churches happens much more often than scandal of the insurance don’t pay the benefit when someone die.

    And yet, I still give suggestion to those theist people to find the right church if they believe in their God or Jesus or whoever it is. If they believe in Buddha or Moslem then go on with their belief, find the right teachings.

    this analogy is the same for people who want to buy insurance. get it from a company with credibility.

    Even though you brag about your religion, even though you said that I’m a bad person because choosing the way of the atheist, but I don’t condemn any religions.
    🙂

    because if you realize, if there is bad things in the insurance company, I believe that it’s not the institution, but the people. So does bad things about churches, it’s because of the people.

    And about me thinking about money more than the god, I guess you are right. I kept thinking that I need the money so that I can use it to do a lot of good things to other people. I put more focus on its intention my friend. Not on the money per se, but on Why I want that money?
    😉

    If you mention an analogy about thirsty people don’t need a gallon of water that is delivered 10 years later….,

    This I agree with you, Astudent. That’s why as a rule of thumb in the insurance, you just contribute about 10% of your total income. WHY???

    So You still have 90% of it to give it direct to those people in need if you want to right here right now. It’s just, in the future, that special 10% could give you 1000% of what you earn today.
    😉

    And yes, you may argue that wrong is wrong and cannot be right? And yes you may argue that I don’t understand Theist people way of thinking.

    But Let me use our conversation as one of the way I learn to be a theist. I’m not an expert since I don’t have much base about religion. But I just use my common sense.

    What is it? Here it is…
    God is so good, even though people use insurance as a means of gambling, but His love is so perfect that can change the direction on the intention of buying the insurance from bad intention into the new paradigm for helping the poor.

    Focusing too much on right or wrong sometimes equals to forgetting the value of act of love. Just like a story in the bible that people try to punish a female adulterer, but as soon as Jesus write something wise on the ground, and the people who try to punish her leave the her one by one.

    so if you later buy the insurance, let your intention is to share the “love”.

    Insurance is a very interesting financial tool isn’t it?

    Think about it.

  21. astudent says:

    yyuan,

    Well, we both have something to be sorry for. I am sorry that I am so late to answer. The things of this world just get in the way sometimes.

    In your comment you speak about fake churches and you say it is a little off the main topic. Can you see what I meant when I said we think differently because the very basic core that we start from is different? The main topic for me is God and the main topic for you is insurance. I use what I understand about God to understand the need and benefits of insurance and you do not consider God, because you do not believe there is one.

    I have lived on this earth for quite a while now and one thing that I have learned is all men a corrupt. Yes, even I am corrupt, though I am trying not to be.

    You speak of insurance companies as though they are not corrupt, but they are founded by men. They are established to make a profit and managed by men. Nothing that men do should be accepted at face value.

    Banks used to have a pretty good reputation, but look at the problems that their greed has caused in the world market lately. And actually it is the greed of the men that manage the banks as banks themselves are not capable of greed. And it was the US government that gave the banks the opportunity to benefit from their actions. The whole world has suffered from their actions. Do you think I would trust insurance companies when the government and the banks have proved unworthy of my trust?

    You speak of much money and those who like money are hard at work trying to figure a way to get that money. The man that thinks it can not be done has not been conned or stolen from.

    Let us think about the basics of “Life Insurance”. The life insurance that you are promoting is actually not life insurance. Those that buy your product still die! There is no insurance of life at all: only gain for those left behind. But if you give your premium to the poor instead of the insurance company, explaining it is really from God then there is a good chance for real life insurance.

    I am not saying that one can buy salvation. Just that I believe God would look more favorably on a gift to the poor than on an insurance premium. It seems to me that when one dies his or her opportunity to help others dies with them. A great amount of money only tempts those that remain on this earth and it leads to strife instead of peace.

    You tell me that I need to study more about insurance, but I believe you need to study more about men. You say I should find a solid credible insurance company, but what company doesn’t say they are credible? You find out when it is time for them to pay and then it is too late.

    You do make some good points about churches and religion. But the problem stems from the same basic cause. It is not fake churches as much as fake leaders. Churches are a great opportunity for those who are inclined to lie, steal, and kill to practice evil. God has granted the choice of to sin or not to sin to all people. If He stopped someone from sinning, when it was their choice to do so, then He really didn’t grant the choice. He will not even stop those in the church, who use their positions to sin! I know that we agree because you also said that “it’s because of the people”.

    It is not finding the right church that is important, because all churches are controlled by men. It is finding God for yourself that is important!

    I hope I don’t sound like I am bragging about my religion. I will brag about my God and sometimes one might think that I am bragging about myself, but I am only a man and as flawed as any man. There is nothing about myself that I can brag about. I apologize if I gave the impression that I believe you are a bad person because you choose the way of an atheist. I do not believe that you are a bad person. I do believe that you have not devoted as much thought to religion as you have devoted to insurance. If you did you would sound like me! Ha, Ha

    If God changed ones intentions about insurance then He would not have given one the choice of intentions. That is left up to the individual and should be. God wouldn’t be given the credit for helping the poor; insurance would. That would not be right.

    What do you think Jesus wrote on the ground that caused those who were going to stone the female adulterer to death too leave? Could it be the adultery that everyone there had committed, either physically or in their heart? When they realized they were as guilty as the woman they could not condemn her with out condemning themselves! But then the Bible really doesn’t say what he wrote. I know some names of women that Jesus could write in the sand that would cause me to understand that I am also guilty and all he would have to write are the names!

    I certainly agree that money is a very interesting financial tool. It is only the sins of men that screw it up.

    By the way, can you see the possible parallel of premiums paid to the poor generating spiritual interest, just as premiums paid to insurance companies generating monetary interest? A gift to someone that is in need would be remembered when they meet someone else in need. People would receive the premiums and God would receive the benefits; and it is God that should.

  22. astudent says:

    yyuan,

    About the first link and the verses that were used –
    Ecc 9:11 I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all.
    It does not say insurance will win the race, or the battle, or bring wealth, or food, or favor. Actually, it says time and chance happen to all and if God would add insurance to the list, I believe it would be downplayed along with swift, strong, wise, brilliant, or learned. Wouldn’t you say that the man that bought insurance was wise, brilliant, and learned?

    John 16:33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
    Jesus was speaking and the verse means that we should put our trust in him: not money, or insurance, or anything, other than God.

    Acts 14:22 strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.
    It says that we must go through many hardships, but the idea of insurance is to avoid hardships. As I understand the verse, hardships are necessary.

    1Co 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
    God will provide the way out, not man. Also, it is speaking about temptation not money.

    Pro 27:12 is speaking about evil not monetary loss.

    Pro 6:6 Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise!
    Pro 6:7 It has no commander, no overseer or ruler,
    Pro 6:8 yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest.
    Consider the ant and buy no more insurance than it does. It means work for gain, it does not mean try to cover all your bases.

    2Co 12:14 Now I am ready to visit you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you, because what I want is not your possessions but you. After all, children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.
    This verse is clearly not about money or insurance, but Paul wants the people to turn to God and by that receive eternal life: money is only used as an analogy.

    1Ti 5:8 If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
    The Bible is clear that when someone dies they are no longer bound by the rules of this earth. Those that are left are free to marry again and I think it is obvious they no longer are obligated to provide for the family they were once part of. The same God that guided me while I walked this earth is the same God that will guide those that I will leave behind.

    Pro 13:22 A good man leaves an inheritance for his children’s children, but a sinner’s wealth is stored up for the righteous.
    Ha Ha A good man gives to the poor while he lives. A sinner’s wealth is stored up! The scenario you present is one where the wealth is stored up.

    There is nothing in Exodus 21 & 22 that addresses the question of whether or not a man owes anything to the world after death. I might add that God does not view moneylenders and interest in the same light as the world does. Exo 22:25 “If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest.

    Man’s laws do indeed require one to purchase insurance sometimes and it gives licenses to steal. We are required to obey man’s laws, but that does not make man’s laws just. Jesus paid the temple tax, but that did not make the temple tax just. God had already set up the tithe to cover temple expenses, but those who were in charge of the temple wanted more. I do not mean to anger you, but I would bet they used the same argument to implement it that you use to justify insurance: to better feed the poor.

    Jesus did indeed say “Love your neighbor as you love yourself” and I try. It is far more important that my neighbor realize there really is a God and life never ends, than someone should live in comfort in this phase of life. I would not truly love anyone if I minimized this message.

    This blog could not have ended with a verse that is so opposed to the message that it tries to convey.
    Mat 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'”
    Insurance is all about bread, not about the word of God.

    I hope that you are not angered because I disagree. Actually, I do not disagree with you when you speak about insurance. It is just that I have lived long enough on this earth to know that all men are corrupt and it causes the ideals of men to become corrupt. I am 100% sure that there is no such thing as a sure thing and knowing this I can not trust insurance companies, but then I can not trust anyone, except God. You see I really do believe in insurance! God is my insurance and the premiums are zero!

    I will comment on the second link, but right now, I must exercise my body a bit. I do see that you are putting in an honest effort to present your side of the discussion and I really appreciate it. It causes me to think about the basic question and therefore your comments have been very good for me

  23. yyuan says:

    astudent…

    I’m not an expert in the bible. It was just when I browsed the internet, there are religious people who supports the insurance and in vice versa. Each of them have their own reasonings for buying or NOT buying the insurance.

    So if you give me so many bible verse to proof that insurance is not right according to your believe then you can definitely do what you believe.

    But at the same time, I know that there are many religious people do believe in the insurance. “They” have the same religion as you do, but “they” have a different understanding about the insurance and the related bible verse from you.

    If In your eyes “they” are wrong. Then it leads to the conclusion that in their eyes, your belief about insurance and bible verse as to related to insurance is wrong.

    Judging the all people are corrupt. Hmmm… sounds to me that you found so many bad people. Yes I admit, there are a lot of people corrupt. In many ways, they corrupt money, time or etc.

    But judging that insurance companies don’t pay the benefit at all is not a right conclusion either.

    Because I myself saw that the companies pay. I myself made some claims on the car insurance company. And the insurance company paid me good money, my car is fixed, and they reimbursed the car rental for almost a month and the theraphy fees for my back after the accident.

    Have you ever had a car accident lawsuit as much as USD 250,000? Wait until you do, then you will say thank you for having the insurance to protect your financial situation.

    And also I saw my friend bring a check for one of his clients beneficiary. The insured just died several years ago. Not much, but it’s enough to pay for 2 people’s education fee for getting a degree as a doctor in USA from a good university.

    Hey, they can use the money to study Theology and spread the word right 😉

    Next, why I bring up topic about some fake churches in my previous writing? It was just to show you some similarity. Bad insurance companies VS Good insurance companies. As if Bad church VS Good church.

    Is it a little off the topic? maybe… but I’m just trying to show some points that nothing is perfect, and yet we still have some good things from it that we can use to help our financial situation.

    In my next writing I will share to you another basic concept about how they can pay.

    But back to the topic.
    So with this, the way I learn it… “If you judge people, you have no time to love…” (mother teresa’s quote)

    And yes you are right about the way I see insurance companies on the positive sides. It’s all based on Good Faith concept. It’s like when the insurance companies see you as a client (if you become one).

    Good Faith is one of the concepts in the basic insurance. When the agent ask information from the prospect, the agent will “assume” that the prospect is telling the truth.

    Let’s say the agent ask how much your income. You may say 50,000 USD. With this, you may qualify for $500,000.- value amount of life insurance. Which is following the rule of thumb that is about 10 to 20 times of your annual income.

    But the moment you wanna buy 1 Million, then the company will have to check your tax return statement or any related information to support your statement about your income.

    So in this case, for some company, you can buy as much as $999,999.- life insurance product without any financial check. Good Faith isn’t it?

    Sometimes you see so many bad people are taking advantage of the system. That’s why humans make the law to prevent these things.

    Is it perfect? Of course not. So does insurance companies. So does the church. Even the recent Catholic scandals keep coming up in the news. Sad but true. Now, can I say all Catholic priest are homo and sex maniac? Of course not.

    Regarding your statement about “God is my insurance”. I can understand why christian people are using this as their excuse for not buying the insurance.

    Again, it’s because of the lack of understanding about what insurance is for.

    Let me repeat it. (I wrote similar explanation in my previous writing)

    Insurance is not to remove the risk. It’s just to reduce the risk. Insurance is to indemnify (financially indemnify). I guess this word “indemnify” is written by other writer that reply your writings.

    Just click Ctrl-F and type indemnify in this page, or I guess you copied it from some dictionary and pasted it in one of your reply to some other writer before.

    To keep it simple. Indemnify is similar “to restore”. But in this case, is to restore FINANCIALLY but NOT necessarily physically.

    So that means if you insured your car. Then insurance is to restore your car back to what it was before the accident happened.

    Or if you insured your home. Suddenly there is a strong wind and raining water and damage the roof. Then you can make the claim and get the roof fixed.
    The insurance company will pay as much as how much to restore your roof back to how it was before the leak damage.

    And Indemnity concept in the insurance requires the “insured” to have some value to be qualified for “indemnify”.

    Then the question is how about human asset? The value of human asset is calculated through many ways. In our society, they are calculated from the total savings, projected income, assets, liabilities etc.

    Some insurance companies provide coverage for the butt of beautiful singer, or the leg of a famous soccer player. How are they calculate the value of her butt or his leg?

    You can easily understand that the soccer player will lose the “projected income” if he lose his leg from accident. Depends on how much he makes today. Then the insurance company can provide the coverage for such thing.

    BUT Now, your concept of insurance sounds like something “to assure”. Which in this case what you believe it is God who can give you assurance.

    So there is a gap of understanding here. The insurance as a financial tools is definitely have a different purpose from the so called insurance in your belief system “God is my insurance”.

    And also I understand about your concept “premium pay to the poor for the spiritual growth”.

    And that’s why in my previous writing, I mentioned about the rule of thumb 10% of your income for your contribution to your Life insurance products, so that you still have 90% of your income that you can distribute to those “premium pay to the poor for the spiritual growth”.

    It’s like, Pay to yourself first concept. Same analogy when you go on the airplane. The stewardess will explain you to wear your gas mask first before you put it on to your children or other people. Help yourself first, before you help other.

  24. yyuan says:

    How insurance company calculate the premium?

    Basically it’s using the Mortality, Interest and Expense.

    I try to explain it with a simple story.

    Imagine there are 100 people in 1 city. And each of them have a car. But according to statistical data, the car price is $5000.- each. And in that city, the car damage event happened 1 times a month (every month, there is one car damage).

    Put it simple, if everybody made a pact agreement to pool the money, and use this money to replace the damage car. Then each person will have to contribute $50 a month isn’t it?

    Now, imagine if astudent is the leader of the people in that City that manage the money pool.

    What will usually happen is that astudent will have to spend his personal time to manage this. So to compensate astudent, the people agree to contribute 1$ extra a month.

    This way, each person contribute $51 at a very beginning of the month. It is similar to that analogy on the 50 dollar for the Mortality, 1 dollar for the premium Expense

    Let’s say the beginning of the month is April 1st, 2010

    Now, let’s do the math. At the beginning of the month, Astudent have 100 x $51.- = $5,100.-

    But Astudent is smart, he put this $5,100.- in a bank that promise Astudent the interest 1% a month. At the end of the month, the $5,100 has grown up to $5,151.-

    Now, at the end of April 30, 2010, there is 1 car damage. Astudent have to take the money out and give it for repair the damage car as much as $5,000.00

    Can you see that at the end of month, in Astudent bank account, there are still $151.- left?

    So this is the basic thing what insurance company do.

    In current situation, the insurance companies may invest not only in the bank, but they also do property invesments, governemnt bonds, stocks, etc.

    But things get nasty if at April 1, Astudent is using the $5100 to invest in the “risky” type of investment, and on April 29, 2010 the market lose 50%.

    What’s gonna happen is that, Astudent has to come up with his own money to pay to repair the damage car of the group member on April 30, 2010.

    But as long as Astudent stay conservatives, every month Astudent will have about 150$ extra in his pocket. By the end of the year, Astudent will have about 12 x $150 = $1800.-

    5 years later Astudent will have more than $9000.- from the interest and 1$ premium expense.

    At this point, if Astudent use the $4000.- for “risky” investment and lose everything, he still has $5,000 to pay the repair cost anyway right? That’s why insurance company stay long in the business.

    Then, instead of using the interest income for personal wealth, then what if Astudent wants to give it back to the community? Of course he can. The premium will go down as much as how much profit Astudent made in that investments.

    Then people now doesn’t need to pay 51$ a month.

    Now, what if Astudent charge $15 fees? Isn’t it an abuse?

    That’s why the people will vote for the right person as the leader, so that the people are not abused and there is control on how much the premium they should pay.

    Where in our society, there is Department of Insurance in every state in USA that control the insurance companies.

    nothing is perfect, but statiscally speaking, the Astudent “insurance” company can pay the benefit when there is a claim every month.

    But what if there is an abuse by the fake claim, that leads to 3 car damage a month (2 fake damage + 1 real damage). Then the premium will go up 3 times.

    Why? Because it’s impossible for Astudent to keep giving free money out of his pocket to those fake damage and make some bad people make profit on that.

    Otherwise, nobody want to do the job collecting the premium and managing the money, And the system will collapsed without someone as Astudent who wanted to spend his time doing extra job.

    In our real world, those damage events is happening. Satirically speaking, you may say thank you to those fraud people for helping you paying more premium to the insurance company.

    i guess this is a simple story about the premium. Hope it clear your mind why the insurance company stay long in the business.

  25. astudent says:

    yyuan,

    Sorry about taking so long to answer. I have a cold and it is draining my energy.

    You are correct when you say other Christians think that I am wrong. When there is a basic disagreement about something between Christians, it is usually because they are viewing the subject from different angles. That does not mean either is wrong.

    Let me attempt to explain how the view changes from what we believe. Suppose there is a car approaching two people that are standing on the opposite side of a road. To one of them it is advancing from the left and after it passes, it will retreat to the right. To the other person it is just the opposite, as it will approach from the right and pass to the left.
    Same car, same instance, different understanding, and yet both views are correct!

    We are like the two people when it comes to insurance. You are correct in your understanding of insurance, because you are viewing it from a worldly perspective, and I am correct in my understanding, because I am viewing it from a spiritual view.

    Forgive me, but I believe I understand better than you, because I once had your view of insurance, but when I began to understand that there has to be a God and I put about learning everything I could about this God, that has to exist, I changed the position that I viewed insurance from. You have not reached the point where you know there has to be a God and therefore you cannot view insurance from the same perspective as I do.

    When I said all men are corrupt it was not something that was apparent to me until I read it in the Bible. After I read it I began to look for why it was not true, but even when I looked at my own life I could see it was true.

    That is not to say everything I did was wrong, but much of it was. Even now when I know what is right in God’s eyes, I still do not always do what is right! Insurance companies do not always refuse to pay, but it really does matter to you, when it is you that they are refusing.

    At the risk of repeating myself, insurance is a business. A business exists for no other reason than to produce a profit. If it is more profitable not to pay a claim, when the ramifications that will result are less expensive than the profit realized from not paying. A business that is focused on doing what a business is supposed to do, will not pay the claim.

    The Bible says we cannot serve both money and God. Insurance companies cannot advertise that they are in business to generate a profit as the first and foremost goal. They have to seem as if they are a person with their customer’s best interest at heart, when in fact they are neither.

    The study of theology is free and God Himself teaches. I have seen the faith and understanding of others twisted by some of those that try to serve both money and God. The world thinks universities are the answers for learning about God, but a Bible, the pursuit of truth, and solitude are the keys.

    You make a good point about fake churches and bad insurance companies. As far as fake churches are concerned, it is not churches, nor men that are qualified to teach about God. God has reserved that right for Himself. Many men see a profit for themselves and become preachers for that reason and it spoils the message.

    It seems that people do not think for themselves, or perhaps they want to believe something so they let go of truth. Fake churches are easily shown fake when the textbook of churches is studied. In addition, it is easy to see that companies are not always moral, nor should be, when textbooks about business and success are consulted.

    As for judging people, I would say that discerning right from wrong is not judging. It is basically sitting on the jury and is necessary for everyone. The judge is the one that passes sentence and no one should do that, but that does not mean we should not determine right and wrong.

    Insurance companies check everything they can about someone that wants to purchase a policy. Even when applying for auto insurance one better not claim there were no accidents when there were, because there is a record and the insurance company will check it. Actually, I believe they should.

    If insurance companies accept premiums, they should have to pay claims, but if anything looks amiss, they can, and many times do, refuse to pay. They may claim straight wind damage in order not to pay tornado damage even when there is no such thing as straight wind!

    In this country, we did not have to buy health insurance. The poor are the ones that do not want to buy insurance: they would rather eat and at the cost of health insurance, both are not always possible for the poor. So insurance companies, looking at it as a business should, with profit as the only consideration, understood that they would have to make it a law that everyone must buy insurance! That is just what happened in the United States! By law, we must buy insurance!

    The government used to protect citizens and when the insurance companies became too corrupt it was the job of the government to punish them, in order to curtail the practice, but now the insurance company is the government and there is no one to protect citizens.

    The old established insurance companies will still collect the premiums, and they will cite the government for not paying claims! What a deal! You cannot sue the government, unless they allow it and the government, by law, demands we buy insurance! Are we truly free, or are we slave to government and insurance companies?

    It doesn’t really matter if one insures his, or her butt or leg. In the long run, both perish. It is better to consider eternity. At some point all the money in the world is meaningless to the individual. It is correctly said ‘you can’t take it with you’. It is far more important to determine if there is an after life and when one really searches, with truth, there is no answer but “yes”

    I certainly agree that we should help ourselves before we help others. I would go a step farther and say, we cannot help others until we help ourselves.

    Thanks for the time and effort that you spent explaining how insurance companies compute the premiums. I spent quite some time operating my own business and I do understand expenses and profits. There was a basic difference between my business and an insurance business. I had to first buy something in order to resell it and I often could not sell it and had to accept the loss, but an insurance company does not have to buy anything first. The assets of an insurance company are all cash, accumulated before any claims have to be paid, and they never have to take a loss on inventory! What a deal!

    While I was in business, I decided to sell a product that required, by law that I purchase insurance to cover anything that might happen to a customer. When I first priced the insurance and was not yet a dealer the insurance was reasonable, but after the first year when I had committed much money and effort to establish the business, the insurance company almost tripled the premium! What a deal! I could either go out of business, or pay the premium!

    It might seem as though I am angry with insurance companies, but actually, I admire the deception! It is the way a business is supposed to be operated. Morales or how people should be treated should not be the objective of business. In business, people should be treated fairly when it benefits the business and not when it does not. That is probably why I was not very successful in business. I could not do to others what I did not want done to me.

  26. yyuan says:

    hi astudent,

    talking about business insurance vs your trading business (buy and sell).

    of course the basic of all is to make profit.

    now let’s see how the churches growing. without profit, there will be no more new buildings. 1 – 1 = 0

    to grow is supposed to be 2 – 1 = 1 (for the extra)

    there is no such thing as a free lunch, in a sense that, if there is donation to church to grow, that means somebody else have to “chop” off it’s business profit. it’s not god that give the money.

    why that business wants to donate? it could be many reasons. some of them do it for promotion. some of them do it to make them feel better.

    your business is selling things.

    churches business, is selling promise.

    insurance business, is selling promise.

    i sense that you are a commited person on something that you believe. if you believe in your god, then invest in your churches community, activity etc.

    and the churches business thanks to you.

    speaking your past experience with insurance company, sounds like there is only one insurance company you deal with. you should shop around and get a lot cheaper deals offer.

    if you were not very successful in business, please don’t say that you could not do to others. it has nothing to do with this.

    business is just like a game. let’s say “business game”. so you gotta love the game even before it’s started. then you will enjoy it even if you lose or win.

    if you analyze how apple vs microsoft more than 10 years ago, apple is in losing side. but now it find its niche and its brand recognition is huge.

    apple lose in the operating system “business game”
    but apple begin to win in the mp3 player “business game” through ipod.

    now apple is tapping the market in the cellphone “business game” and the new ipad is coming.

    will it be bigger and bigger? it’s only a game, we don’t know…

    so, you were not very successful in business is because you haven’t found the opportunity yet.

    by the way, since you invest so much dedication to your god, maybe you can sell your stuff to the church people. there are millions of people who believe in your god. it’s probably your niche market.

    back to the insurance “business game”, some players are honest, some players are evil. if some risk damage your business, and then you make a claim to the insurance companies, then the insurance company pays you the claim. then you should thanks to the honest player.

    but if you don’t get paid, then why don’t you go on the trial.

    big player like walmart got many lawsuit. and look at the story of macdonald got a lawsuit just because that stupid grandma drink hot coffee and she spill it by herself.

    and macdonald use it for the advertisement opportunity. pay a millions dollar and get exposed in most major newspaper around the world as “Free ad”

    it’s only a game son…

  27. astudent says:

    yyuan,

    Thank you for your comments. They have made me think about money and God. This has helped me understand my beliefs even better. It must seem to you that I have become even more foolish in my beliefs, as the Bible says what we believe seems foolishness to those who do not also believe.

    Let me explain a little about the Church. Those who do not understand think the Church is a building, but the Church is the people; not the building. A profit for the Church is more people, not more buildings. The buildings are only an expense. The profit (people) will supply more capital, to build more buildings, to produce more profit. You see that it is a parallel example that can be understood if you bear in mind the true value is not money, but people. Perhaps it might be clear if one looks at money as an expense instead of the main entity.

    One can not insure the Church as there are no true reserves to replace losses. If money were the most important entity of the church then it could be replaced, but unlike any other pursuit money is of little importance to the Church. If the church building burns to the ground there is no loss of profit, only an opportunity to produce more profit.

    You see that if money is the most important thing in life, and for those who have not searched for the true God it truly is, then what you say about insurance makes perfect sense and I agree with you. But the post that started these comments was “Why do we buy insurance” and it was a question to Christians, not to those who are not Christians. Those who are not Christians consider money as the most important thing in the universe and it makes sense to protect it.

    I almost agree that both insurance and churches sell promises. There are major differences though. The promises of the church are free. They are actually the promises of God; just transmitted through the church. One can depend on a promise from God, but you can not always depend on a promise from man.

    I also agree that business is a game. In order to win at a game one has to do what ever is necessary and morals are a hindrance to success in a game.

    I don’t know if you have ever played Monopoly. I don’t even know if the game is sold in your country, but it is a game of business. The winner is the one that ends up with all of the money. If a poor contestant happens to roll the dice so that he ends up on a high price piece of property it would not be wise to forgive the debt incurred if the contestant cried about his bad luck. One can only win the game by being ruthless. Of course there are differences between a board game and real life, but the basic rules that must be followed in order to win are the same.

    If one wants to be successful in business and I mean really successful they must be ruthless and that is why I was not really successful. That does not mean that I did not make any money. It only means that I did not make as much as someone that loves the game more than he loves his neighbor.

    That is good advice when you say that I might be able to sell my stock to church people, but it mixes money with God and the Bible says one can not serve both money and God. Though we must all handle money it can not become so important to a Christian that we begin to serve it. But I do appreciate the thought.

    Like the game of Monopoly the insurance companies in this country have become so powerful that they have been able to sway the government to take over the control of the necessary evils of the business of health insurance. Insurance companies will still be paid the premiums and will still make all of the profits, but now the government will make us buy the product and they will be in control of who and how much anyone receives in benefits. They will also be in control of how much doctors and hospitals will be paid. You say if the insurance companies will not pay that I should take them to court, but now if the health insurance companies in this country will not pay, what can we do, who can sue the government? The insurance companies are only playing the game rather well.

    I had to laugh when you cited the woman that sued McDonalds for the hot coffee burns that she got when she dumped it on herself. When it happened I understood it the same as you did. It was worth a fortune in free advertisement!

    I don’t know if you have thought about it, but I doubt if the parent company of McDonalds has insurance. The only reason to buy insurance is if you do not have the resources to cover a big loss. McDonalds has enough cash to cover any law suit that someone might bring on them, so it would not be a good business decision to pay some one else enough that they can make a profit when the company can cover it’s own loss. I would imagine they require their franchised restraints to buy insurance though, because it would serve to protect them also and cost them nothing.

    They also knew that they would not have to pay such a claim. They knew that they could appeal any decision and stretch it out long enough that the old woman would die and the suit would go away with her death.

    Insurance companies loved it also, because it made many smaller companies consider the benefits of insurance for them. People buy insurance out of fear and a million dollar law suit would put most small restaurants out of business.

  28. I think your article was really a solid beginning to a potential series of blog posts about this topic. So many users act like they know what they are talking about when it comes to this topic and most of the time, hardly anyone actually get it. You seem to understand it however, so I think you need to start writing more. Thanks!

  29. astudent says:

    Cordell,
    Thanks for the confidence, but it is not actually insurance that I understand. It is money!
    The quote from Deep Throat in the book “All the President’s men” is well worth some thought. It was “Follow the money”.
    There is always a path of money that leads to someone’s gain. The downfall of tobacco is such a case. It took me a while to understand who had anything to gain from it. The tobacco companies were going to loose and the Government would also loose tax revenues and for a long time I could not understand who would gain, but then I realized the insurance companies had much to gain, as their expenses would be lowered.
    The cost of advertising is such that only those who had something to gain would finance it.
    Anyway, my main interest is in the Word of God and I do not want to be tied up with one subject. Especially money.
    Perhaps you might consider posting more on the subject. If you can see that I understand it, then don’t you also?

  30. Nap says:

    Think about this. If God blesses you with extra money to set aside for the rainy day/s now, then we should really learn from the ants (Proverbs) and insurance is one way of providing for the rainy day. Because God blesses us with extra, we can then turn around and exercise that faith God has given us. As the saying goes, “God helps those who help themselves”.

  31. astudent says:

    Nap,

    Well, I’m not sure extra money is such a blessing, but looking at it from a slightly different way, what did Jesus say about the rich man in Luke 18:22? Did He say the rich man should be comfortable for the rest of his life?

    Wouldn’t it be better to save the money and have it to cover anything that might happen than to buy insurance on some particular disaster? You must depend on the insurance company to honor the agreement they made and they hire people to find loopholes.

    The person that buys insurance puts their faith in insurance, not God. Jesus told the wealthy to sell everything they owned and give the money to the poor (Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 12:33, & 18:22. Anyone that would do that has put their faith in God only, because they would have no money to protect them in times of trouble.

    The phrase “God helps those that help themselves” is man’s phrase, created to justify man’s mistakes. It is not found in the Word of God.

  32. lxiong1 says:

    I really like your post. I just had a conversation with someone about why we shouldn’t buy life insurance. Yes, when we purchase insurance, we have faith that they will come through with the money in the end. Do we forget God created this world? That he created YOU and ME? He is in control, and if he allows us to suffer/struggle, let it be like Job. God only lets us face what we can handle to make us STRONGER. God molds us in ways we can’t imagine.

    When we buy life insurance we are saying that God is not in control. We are insuring our life because we “sinners” tend to choose destructive paths and need life insurance as a safety net incase we stumble upon a situation where we are not prepared for.

    God nevered said we wont meet trials and tribulations, He just said he will never forsake us.

    Having life insurance will not only make it seem that we don’t have faith in God, but that we are storing up treasures (money) in this world. We hope to get a lot of money for paying a little?

    Yes the devil has perfected in decieving the children of God. He uses bits and pieces of Gods own teaching from the bible and twist it to fit our modern life. He decieves us by telling us we NEED this product for our famillies (for the Devil knows we will do anything for our families). We need it to keep us secure from life’s disasters and unpredictabilities. Is our God not the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

  33. astudent says:

    lxiong,

    Well said and I agree.

  34. maan says:

    any loving parent specially the breadwinner should buy an insurance. because he is responsible enough to think of his orphan should he die too soon ( death benefit ) or live too long as not to burden his children at old age. ( retirement )
    there are always expenses incurred on both occasion ( i hope no one argues with that ) wont it give you a peace of mind knowing that your loved ones are not burden with those expenses ? ( your answer will reflect your personality )
    insurance is never intended for any other purpose but be prepared for them at any time.
    if money is not an issue, this is easy to answer
    but if you do not have enough money to buy insurance, then you are not working enough for a living.

  35. astudent says:

    maan,

    Please do not be mad at me, but I must speak from the heart.

    If money is what brings you peace of mind, then by all means purchase insurance.

    If your faith in God exceeds your faith in money, then do not buy insurance.

    One reaches a point in their walk with God to understand that money is a false god and it will not bring peace of mind.

    I believe that my answer reflects my faith, not my personality. The same God that I have placed my trust in is the same God that will watch over those that I leave behind.

    You are correct it is easy to answer when money is not an issue.

  36. jMiTch says:

    astudent,

    I have read the posts and have been encouraged so much which I have been needing greatly today. I am currently finishing up my Masters in Business Administration and will be graduating next month. I have taken a job with New York Life Insurance Company starting as soon as I graduate. I am 25 years old and I received salvation three years ago and have been growing as the Lord has allowed me by doing His commandments and as he says to do in 1Pet. 2:2. “As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow by it.” Reading his word has been a daily lifestyle of mine and will continue to be as long as the Lord wills. Now saying all this I have been put into a situation in which I think I have made more complicated and difficult on myself than needs be. Before accepting this job I looked into the subject of insurance from a biblical view by searching God’s word. I have looked on the internet for information and talked to elders from my church only because God says in Proverbs 11:14 “Where no counsel is, the people fall; but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.” There are other verses that can be referenced to this, but this is the one that encourages me. So I have been seeking wisdom to make the right decision on what I should do about this job because it is a big deal to me as it should be for anyone who is about to take the next big step of leaving college and pursuing a job/career. I have had one elder who has shared with me his reasoning through scripture why it would not be a good choice to take the job and another who thought insurance is a positive thing. Both men I highly respect and both live according to God’s word. I am meeting with another man over breakfast in two days who I also greatly respect to discuss insurance and what he thinks about it from his experience an understanding from God. These three men all have big families and all have lived a life full of faith and love and are great examples of how Jesus does intercede in our lives for good. My problem is that I have went through three interviews, endured a three-day crash course in health, life, and accidental insurance, and passed the state test to become licensed. The staff really want me on board and I have thought long and hard, meditated on God’s word, sought counsel, prayed and asked God for guidance and am still doubting whether I should take the job even though they are expecting me because I have committed to them. I guess I lack faith and am scared to just graduate without a job when I have a lot of student loans and a truck to finish paying off. God does promise me in Philippians 4:19 that He shall supply all my needs according to his riches in Glory by Christ Jesus and as you mentioned earlier in Mt. 6:25-34. I think I keep trying to justify myself to take this job by reasoning that I need to pay off my debt first then look for another job, but that even sounds more ridiculous the more a think about it. I just want to live a life fully dependent on God and I don’t think that by taking this job will allow me to do just that. I think I am answering my own questions. ha! Maybe I just needed somewhere to express what I am going through to someone I have never met but respect as a fellow brother in Christ and speaks soundly as one who seems to understand a lot more on this topic. Thank you for listening to my babble. Please pray for me that I am strong enough to make the right decision according to God’s will. Thank you again.

  37. astudent says:

    jMiTch,

    I would advise you to only seek the counsel of the Holy Spirit. As a born again believer the Holy Spirit lives in you and speaks to you by revealing the understanding of Scripture. It seems to me that you have consulted men instead of God.

    As odd as it sounds, when I had a decision to make, one that I wanted to make a certain way and I knew deep down that the way I wanted seemed wrong, I would just open the Bible to a random page and God would answer me with the first verse I read. I am not saying that this will work for you. I had/have faith that God will answer me. You may not have that much faith yet. However, from the sound of your comment, I believe you will. Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

    You already know what I will say. The Bible says that a man should work with his hands. It seems to me that rules out working with his mind. Those who want to get rich work with their minds and money is the enemy of God.

    I understand that you will face hardship if you do not accept this job, but this life is supposed to be hard. The more difficult the better the contrast to life with God in Heaven.

    By the way, God says that He will supply your needs, not all of your desires. Your comment was anything but babble and if it were up to me I would say take the easy way out, because that is what I would want someone to tell me, if I were in your situation. I’m just not sure that God would tell you the same. However, you can rest assured that no matter what you decide, God will not leave you (unless you want Him to).

    If you take the job and devote your efforts toward paying off your debts, then perhaps later you could find something that would not bother your conscience as much.

    It might help to remember that those who do not depend on our Father just might need insurance. But then perhaps I am trying to ease your mind, when I shouldn’t be.

  38. astudent says:

    jMiTch,

    Well, God will not let me stop thinking about your problem.

    First, He whispered in my mind, “What about a soldier?” The basic job of a soldier is to kill the enemy. But Jesus didn’t tell the soldier to resign, only to, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”

    So that same voice that seems to be mine, but I know it is not, asked me what career, that a man could choose, would please God. I thought and thought and could not identify any such career.

    Now, I know that just about every preacher, that might still be reading the things that I write, is jumping up and down shouting ‘Me, Me, Me. But most of them are taking money for their services and I don’t see how that would please God.

    I reached a conclusion about what one should do to please God and it is plainly said in Scripture. James 1:27 (NIV) Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    There is no perfect Job in this world, but we must all work. So, if I were to counsel you, I would say take the job, but don’t forget that the whole business was founded on unbelief, just as this Country and many other things in this life.

  39. Patrick says:

    Thank you for posting this!! I am so convicted not to have insurance of late, but I want to drive? What am I to do? My state (MO) has a provision for people who are required not to have insurance by their church (I use a small “c” with intent), but even *that* option is just “self-insurance” by the church members.

    I absolutely will not take out car insurance, and yet want to drive. What should I do guys? Ideas?

  40. astudent says:

    Patrick,

    As you can see from my post that I have auto insurance.

    I only have liability insurance. This is all that is required by law. I do not class this as the same as insuring myself, although I can see from other angles it might be considered the same.

    If it brothers you then buy the insurance and if you have an accident then pay for it yourself.

    If you do not think that you will be able to pay for it then be glad the government made you by it. Because the government mandates insurance, which causes others to demand more than they should you well might not be able to pay for an accident.

    Everything is not always black and white. God says do not kill others, but Jesus said that if you do not have a sword sell your shirt and buy one. (I believe it is OK to protect yourself and the weapon of the day is a gun)

    Because I do not insure my own car, I do not feel bad because the government mandates that I buy insurance to protect others.

    We are required to obey the authorities, so the only way that I see that you can drive is to buy the insurance. Just do not depend on insurance. Depend on our Father.

    We should not feel bad when the government makes us do something that we would not do without the government making us. The government makes us pay taxes and then supports abortion with the revenue.

    I see it as the government is guilty of the sin: not me. I can not be held responsible for the sins of others.

  41. geronimo says:

    astudent

    I happened to stumble across your article as I googled around for some answers regarding this issue. I just want to say (as other people have also) that your post on this Christian insurance issue is very thought provoking and encouraging. And I think the responses’ from other people (and your subsequent replies) gave a much clearer picture of the whole situation as well.

    For me personally, I’ve been Christian for 6 years now and my (private) car insurance has just expired and the renewal premiums increased literally by around 50% (this is because last year I got this quite reputable insurance company to beat be an already low insurance quote) and it’s now about $1K. I haven’t decided what to do yet, and whether to get any insurance at all, except for the 3rd party cover required by law. To me this is now a bit of money as my car is depreciating in value and I have generally lived frugally all my life, saving when I can and spending it where it “counts”. I’ve had my car for 4 years and nothing has ever happened to it except minor scuffs.

    I now also sponsor 2 kids through World Vision Australia (I’m Australian) which is $86 a month which is $1032 a year. Now my insurance cost is basically the same as that and I feel something is not quite right here. Insurance is a bit like gambling where the only difference is you get a pay out to an asset’s original/agreed value IF something (that is clearly “check-the-fine-print” stated in the policy) happens. I’ve thought a lot about this recently and here’s my line of thinking:

    Do accidents happen? Yes. Do major accidents happen which you cannot afford to pay/have to take a big financial hit to restore the original value? Yes. If we’re only talking about car insurance here, statistically, the chances of both the former and the latter or generally low. Even from a secular perspective we can agree to that. Christians and non-Christians alike will argue that it will only take that one wrong turn, that one-time careless blindspot check to put you in financial “ruin”, which I say fair enough. Sometimes insurance can get you out of financial trouble. The same goes for health and life insurance.

    But here’s what happened in Brisbane, Australia in January, 2011. There was a riverine flood (where the water slowly rises from the river) and Brisbane got dunked (you can google it). Homes were ruined with filthy water and mud and a whole of other stuff that’s usually in the Brisbane river. It was my first time going through a natural disaster and I saw many of my friend’s homes get ruined. Saw everything first hand, helped them clean up etc.. So..here’s the deal, only one major insurance company had the riverine flood clause as part of their DEFAULT policy. So these people were lucky. However, the vast majority of people only were insured for storm flooding by DEFAULT (where water comes from the rain as opposed to the river – yes, technical I know). A couple of bigger insurance companies gave limited compassionate payouts but most people would have received money from local and international donations/partial government payouts or none at all. Living in a first-world western country still means you aren’t completely screwed.

    1.5 years on, there’s still banners in front of houses just down from where I live, promoting boycotts of particular insurance companies because they didn’t pay a cent to the people who have loyally payed their insurance premiums for literally decades.The insurance companies wiped their hands clean and said “hey, you didn’t read the fine print. The riverine flood option was always there but you just didn’t opt in. This is business, not our problem”. Even for people who are covered by insurance, there’s still a large number of households who have not rebuilt because of building approval/assessment delays and internal company bureaucracy. Living in a partially germ infested house for 1.5 years because you’re insurance company is slow isn’t my idea of great service. They are a business – they optimise for their own survival and profit.

    My conclusion: the Bible is not a rule book but at the same time, the Holy Spirit prompts us into the righteous and wise path of Jesus Christ. Christians who are pro-insurance who use “good financial planning” as a reason, which I agree, should also take into account of statistics, the reality of insurance companies, the fine print, the special conditions that generally only insurers know about, work out if you are better off NOT paying insurance and saving it up for literally ANY calamity. I might add that starving children is a calamity. That 50% of humanity living on less than USD$2 a day (purchase power parity) is also a calamity.

    Really good points from people saying that generally only people who aren’t in poverty can afford insurance. It really is about money.

  42. astudent says:

    geronimo,

    It sounds like you have done your own thinking. You have reached the same conclusions as I have.

    Don’t be surprised if the insurance company charges almost the same amount for liability only insurance. They charge me more for liability than they charge some of my friends for full coverage.

    My bottom line is that God is my insurance. My house is in my name and the world would say that it belongs to me, but it really belongs to God. If the house burns, it is His house that burned: I just live there. (Briefly)

    God says do not worry and if everyone did as He says insurance companies would not exist.

    You are absolutely correct; it is all about money.

  43. patrick says:

    astudent,

    If the government forces you to steal from someone, will you do that and blame it on them too? The government cannot force me to sin. If they say I must buy car insurance in order to drive, I am not being forced to buy the insurance in order to drive. I am subject to the authorities that God put in place, not authorities that tell me to sin. I choose not to buy insurance. You choose to. It is your sin.

    Just say no dood!

  44. astudent says:

    patrick,

    The government certainly is forcing me to buy insurance in order to drive. If I do not buy insurance then I cannot legally drive and God tells me to obey the government, because He established it. (Romans 13:1&2, and consider verse 5 also)

    In this state, one cannot buy a license tag for a motor vehicle without proof of insurance, so if I want to drive I must buy insurance.

    I could just walk! I do walk for exercise and when I do I usually walk about six miles, but that takes about two hours and I can drive that in less than fifteen minuets (That is in town). Every week I travel to another town that is about one hundred and fifty miles from this one. I just do not have time to walk everywhere.

    I do not view the government’s demands to buy insurance as a sin. I would view the process that those in the government went through, in order to make it a law as sin. They force citizens to purchase insurance: even those who would rely only on God.

    That brings up a question in my own mind! Can a government sin? I am quite sure that those who are controlling the government can sin, but can we say that the government sins? Will the government be thrown into Hell for sins, or will it be the leaders?

    As a Christian, I cannot drive without insurance, because it would be a sin of disobedience of my Fathers Word (Again Romans 13:1, 2, and 5).

    God says the same thing to you (dood, from one dood, to another). So, suck it up and buy some. It’s only money.

    Sometimes we cannot just choose what we want: the choice has already been made for us

  45. jMiTch says:

    astudent,

    I thought you might like to know my decision about taking the insurance job with New York Life and current status and if not, I don’t care, I’m going to tell you anyway!

    I turned the job down two weeks before I graduated and had no idea what to expect except that I had complete trust in God and knew I was going to be taken care of. I put into my heart some verses about trusting in the Lord and He put me at peace. He gave me the opportunity to put all my faith in Him and I knew if I would have passed that up I would have missed out on His sovereignty. I worked construction and farmed over the summer and although it seemed like I made a bad choice, God promised me He would never leave me or forsake me and Mt. 6:33 was another promise I meditated on.

    Thank you for your feedback and you are such an encouragement by posting on such important matters that seems to be completely distorted and corrupted in today’s world!

  46. jMiTch says:

    Oh yeah, almost forgot…I am now working in a job that I love and it is allowing me to pay off my debt which is my main goal right now. God is good!

  47. astudent says:

    jMitch,

    Yes, I did appreciate your thoughtfulness. I also appreciate your sense of humor.

    I spent quite a few years working at a job that I enjoyed, that did not pay well. I did not mind going to work every day, but I would talk to others, in other fields of work, that hated their jobs. It seemed as though they made themselves miserable 50 weeks a year, just so they could have a vacation!

    God has blessed me beyond what I could have had, if I had just considered only money.

    God says to work with your hands (1Thes 4:11), but the money is in working with our minds. Money is another god that opposes the true God, so we should not make money our main goal; though in this world it is necessary.

    I will tell you what really makes me happy. It is your faith in God and I am just as certain that He will continue to bless you for it: even as I know that He has blessed me. Matthew 6:33 is as true as the rest of the Bible. Never stop seeking.

    God is more than good: He is love. However, good will do.

    Thank you for your encouragement as well.

  48. Debbie Price says:

    This is a tough question and I am asking myself that question too. Some may be asking, “Why do we lock the doors to our homes or have security systems?” Where do we draw the line between prudence and recklessness? I do admit though, the thought of not having coverage (at a very small fraction of the cost since my employer pays most of it) would definitely make me more dependent on God and I like that. But is it a wise thing to do?

  49. Debbie Price says:

    I also want to add with the mandatory health care coverage soon to take effect in 2014, we all will have to buy health insurance. Romans 13 tells us to submit to the governing authorities for the Lord’s sake so in order not to rebel against God should we have to purchase health insurance.

  50. astudent says:

    Debbie Price,

    Well, this is only my opinion, so don’t take it as Gospel.

    We lock the doors because God allows sin in this world. As I understand, choosing to be a servant of God has to be totally a matter of free choice. I personally do not think that God would consider protecting ourselves, from those that sin, as a sin. I do not believe that we can depend on God to stop the sinner, because that would mean he or she did not really have free choice. I sin and God does not stop me, even though I wish He would.

    It seems to me that buying insurance is willfully placing our trust in money, not in God.

    Not buying insurance is truly a mistake when the world and it’s cares are the only consideration. However, I feel that I must always consider what God thinks of my actions. I may well loose everything that God has placed in my care, but it is only money and money should mean very little to a Christian. So, to answer your question, it is not wise from a worldly perspective.

    I view it as a personal test from God. Do I have enough faith to place my trust in Him and when I loose something can I thank Him, because I enjoyed it for a while. I believe that I will be rich beyond what anyone can be in this world. All I have to do is wait until I reach Heaven, but I feel that it is important to demonstrate my faith in God now. I mean to demonstrate it to Him: not to others.

    Yes, I think it would be right to buy insurance when it becomes mandatory. It is a mute point, because the government has many ways to take our money and we will not be successful avoiding it.

    I believe that some Christians can have insurance without placing their trust in it. When the government makes someone purchase insurance it will demonstrate to all that we cannot depend on it. It will not be worth the paper it is written on and it will eventually cost much more than it does now. Look at auto collision insurance. I remember when it was reasonable and it was not difficult to get a fair settlement. Well, it is mandatory now and it is unreasonably expensive and the companies try in many ways to lower their costs and that means it is difficult to be fairly reimbursed.

    Here is another way that I view insurance. Suppose we are speaking only about health insurance. In order to believe in health insurance one has to believe in the power of medicine to heal, but everyone will die. I hear the phrase “Save a Life”, but life is never saved by anything or anyone, except God. It may be prolonged, but never saved. The people of this world worry about dying and they should, because this is the only time that they have to enjoy anything. However, we are Christians.

    Not having insurance will not make you more dependent on God. Reading His Word and trying to understand it will and that is the only thing that will.

    Rom 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
    Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

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  52. Truth says:

    There is no direct reference to insurance in scripture so we need to take the whole counsel of the Bible; there are scriptures that speak of providing an inheritance for your family and providing for the future. When we are taking a position on this subject we must make sure that we can back what we say with the word of God. Some say it is a sin to buy insurance as a believer and I think that position is very shaky to say the least. Our trust ultimately has to be in God but that does not stop us from consulting a GP for an annual check up. We work to earn money to live some may say that demonstartates a lack of faith and that God will provide so we should work but volunteer. Of course this line of reasoning is extreme but I have heard many with this position. I believe that they are totally misguided. Whether we save a pension for old age, buy insurance or save for the future this demonstrates forward thinking and if as believers our ultimate trust is in God we have no reason to fear. If job took life insurnace it would have made little difference to his situation it was about the fact that he lost all he had, no amount of insurance can compensate for the death of a child or the loss of a home

  53. astudent says:

    Truth,

    I like the name, as that is what we all search for.

    The inheritance that is spoken of in the Bible is always that which is promised after the day of the Lord. We are the inheritance of God, and He is our inheritance. There is no insurance that one can purchase for the inheritance spoken of in Scripture.

    The only verse that I could find that might support your view is Ecclesiastes 7:11&12 (NIV) “Wisdom, like an inheritance, is a good thing and benefits those who see the sun. Wisdom is a shelter as money is a shelter, but the advantage of knowledge is this: that wisdom preserves the life of its possessor.” Insurance is all about money and this world.

    You are correct when you say, “There is no direct reference to insurance in scripture”. When Scripture was written Satan had yet to invent insurance, to confuse the faith of man.

    The only time that I ever had a check-up was when I enlisted in the Air Force. I would not have a medical check-up now. I have lived almost 73 years without worrying about my health and I am not going to start now. I will die of whatever God wants me to die from and when He decides it is time.

    We are told to work with our hands (Eph 4:28) and If we refuse we should not be fed (2 Thessalonians 3:10) so there is no lack of faith if one works for a living.

    I did not save for my old age and yet God has supplied wealth beyond what I could have amassed. I am not suggesting anyone test God and not save. However, that is my situation and I am sure it was God that supplied the retirement. Who knows, He may remove that wealth tomorrow. After all, it is His and not mine.

    Job did not lose a child. He will see that child in heaven. Nor did he lose a home. His faith will be rewarded when Jesus comes back. Actually, his family was doubled. He now has fourteen sons and six daughters. The riches that Job was given on this earth cannot compare with what he will receive.

  54. meinerHeld says:

    What a beautiful comment. God is my assurance, and I do not need insurance! God bless your life and health forever!

  55. Anttjuan says:

    Exodus 21:18 “If men contend with each other, and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist, and he does not die but is confined to his bed, if he rises again and walks about outside with his staff, then he who struck him shall be acquitted. He shall only pay for the loss of his time, and shall provide for him to be thoroughly healed.”

    This is what the Law says. Notice how it says, “He shall only pay for the loss of his time, and shall provide for him to be thoroughly healed.” If this is met through having insurance, through borrowing money from a friend, or from your own money, then well. But if one does not pay, this is where the sin comes in. It’s not about whether one has insurance or not but it is about fulfilling the requirement of the Law of God that is important. If one finds insurance as useful in order to fulfill it, so be it. Or if one trusts their relatives to let them borrow money in time of need, so be it. Or if one has money of their own, that works too. The question about whether its sin or not applies to whether one obeys the Law of God, NOT to whether one has insurance or not. Rightly is that word not found in the Bible. The same is true for providing for your family’s needs. Do you find insurance useful? Use it. If not, don’t, but make sure that you DO provide for your family because THAT is what God ultimately requires of us.

  56. astudent says:

    Anttjuan,

    The law says do not strike another. That is where the sin comes in. If one obeys the law, as you cite as a requirement, then there would be no use for insurance, because no one would be struck in the first place. Mat 7:12 (NIV) So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

    When one buys insurance, one must depend on the company to honor the agreement.
    Psalms 118:8 (NIV) It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.
    Insurance is a business, not a service to mankind. Insurance companies have refused to pay what they owed to customers too many times for me to trust them.

    Ecclesiastes 12:13 (NIV) Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
    God does want us to take care of our family, but not at the expense of ignoring His advice and His advice is to put our trust in Him, not in man. If you believe that God always watches over you, then is it not right to believe He will watch over your family if He takes your life and leaves your family?

    The one who worries about money is not trusting God and all worry is sin. No one would buy insurance if they did not worry about some disaster: that hasn’t even happened.

  57. Alex says:

    Hi Astudent,

    I did not realize that you were the one who wrote this blog. I thought you were just a commenter to it. Okay, so you are obviously very firm in your position against getting insurance and your main reason seems to be that one must trust in God. What exactly do you think that entails? For I certainly don’t want to assume that you think it means for us to do nothing while trusting in God to do it all for us.
    Thanks.

  58. astudent says:

    Alex,

    The more that I think about God and try to understand what He wants from us, the more it seems that, though it sounds strange to mortal men, I am leaning toward doing nothing, except praising and thanking God.

    The first three verses of Ecclesiastes makes it plain that none of the great things that we dream up are necessary. “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.”

    Eccl 12:13 (NIV) Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

    God’s commands are only two. Love your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

    Men seem to think that we must roll up our sleeves and do great things, but if you think about it, we cannot do anything without God helping us.

    I am a child of God, not a grown up. Fathers do not expect a child to put bread on the table. A father only wants his children to be happy, love him, and do what is right. That is enough for me and it makes me happy. That is not “doing nothing” it is doing what I can. It presents a good example of Christianity to the world, because I am happy and content.

    My attitude is a result of much thought on the subject, so please do not respond with your first reaction. Think about it and let us study together.

  59. jack says:

    Buying Life Insurance because something “might happen”? LOL!! Last time i checked the odds of someone dying is 100%. Sometimes people make comments to justify their on ignorance. Either they really don’t understand or don’t want to understand.

  60. astudent says:

    jack,

    You have made me think about life insurance a bit more.

    Isn’t it a Ponzi scheme? Everyone thinks they will receive more than they pay in. If that were the case then the insurance company must always sell new policies to cover those that are paying more than they are taking in. That is a Ponzi scheme.

    I think that you are correct on both counts, they really don’t understand and they don’t want to understand.

  61. meinerHeld says:

    Jack: death is not a part of life. God did not create us to die. So dying is not a good thing, and it should not be accepted. And God is to take care of our loved ones if we die. How ridiculous to think anything else! And how blasphemous to go a step further, and pay a company to take care of them. No.

  62. Sam B says:

    I left this a while ago but it was not posted for some reason so I’m leaving it again.

    I am in the insurance industry, in fact, I insure churches. My father is a pastor, I am a worship leader and have grown up in the church. I aspired to the Air Force Academy for a career in aviation and in particular combat so insurance and specifically coverage for churches was hardly in my radar.

    It’s important to realize that insurance is not a gambling organization, they are a financial institution and are regulated higher than the mortgage industry. They don’s guess at what they charge you, what goes out the back door in claims, has to come in the front in premium. Regardless of our opinions, there are mature, faithful Christian believers in and even running portions of the insurance industry.

    First, we can’t use scripture as a trump card in our arguments, it’s not my job to make you believe something I believe. That rests in the outer sphere of that gray area scripture isn’t black and white on. One area scripture is clear, it’s written to help us understand and “live” with each other in harmony. Many a church split has been caused by these kinds of discussions that turn into “spiritual arguments” and both sides tend to have a good case but both miss the point.
    Don’t be dogmatic on anything that His Word isn’t dogmatic. If you do, the strife that comes from it is on your shoulders, instead of God’s.

    That said, it’s also very important to ask these questions, to be like the Bereans and Reagan, “Trust but Verify”. It’s fine to try and convince someone of your opinion, even have a vigorous debate but not make them believe it especially when you use scripture as a bludgeoning tool to beat people over the head with.

    Bottom line. A police officer puts trust in his sidearm, a doctor has to trust his tools and training, a soldier has to trust his brothers… Nehemiah, Solomon, David, ect…they all had a wall around Jerusalem. They wore swords and were men that changed the world for the better. God gave us the armor in Ephesians but He told us to put it on. A man plans his way but God directs his path. That doesn’t mean we don’t plan. We are called to a life of responsibility and yet submission to God. We are so afraid of the idea of getting out of His will that we are paralyzed to inaction. Our every step isn’t directed by God, but we are to give him every step and plan we take and create. He may choose to use it, He may disregard it.

    I have to think that sometimes He sits on His throne listening to a prayer by someone at a local Starbucks saying, “God, is it your will that I get the brownie with the coffee or just the coffee? I just want to be in your Will God.” I have a feeling that He would say, “whatever, no big deal, if you want the brownie, that’s cool, i’ll work around it, they sure smell good, in fact I watch Sarah bake them this morning and they are some of her best but to be honest, it’s fine either way,…i mean they’re good and all but they’re not like Gabrielle’s…just say’n”

    God isn’t trying to hide His will and frankly, we need to stop being afraid of failing, there really isn’t such a thing as failure, just learning opportunities. He has ordained our challenges to grow, teach and shape us to be more like Him, if we really believe that, we need to stop being so afraid of failure. Failure is good!

    Regarding insurance, it’s nothing more than a tool. A financial one, it’s completely neutral and will be good if good people operate it or bad if bad people run it. That’s also the beauty of Capitalism, it’s up to the people running it.

    If you were to hit, my car, total it, send me to the hospital, and kill my wife and maybe one of my children, and send me into financial ruin, can you tell me that you wouldn’t feel any obligation? That it was just God’s will? because if it was “just God’s will” then when your house gets broken into and your wife raped and murdered, there would be no reason for the law, After all, it’s just God’s Will.

    Islam has a similar term, Masha’allah. It means “God’s Will”. They say that as justification for killing some Israeli family.

    I think we know better than that.

  63. astudent says:

    Sam B,

    I am sorry that your first attempt to comment was not successful. I especially like comments that disagree with my point of view, so I let everyone comment. Well, I have blocked one, maybe two. They may have been the same person, just using different names, because they sounded just alike.

    This blog is all about our Heavenly Father and all we know or understand about Him comes from Scripture. Therefore I cannot accept your claim of, “First, we can’t use scripture as a trump card in our arguments”; because Scripture is truth it seems to me that you are claiming that we cannot use truth! You say that I should not be dogmatic! That is what this blog is all about. The definition of dogma is “An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.” That’s me and I make no apologies for it.

    I would prefer not to argue at all, but I believe what I have said aligns with Scripture and I will defend it.

    I agree that insurance is not a gambling organization. It is not an organization at all. It is a business and when all are combined, it is an industry. You mentioned “what goes out the back door in claims, has to come in the front in premium” and you left out the most important part of any business and that is profit! Your company is not in business to help anyone. It exists to produce a profit, but it claims to exist to help people. If there were no profit, there would be no insurance.

    How can one be like a Berean and not use Scripture to verify what is said? You just used Scripture when you spoke of the Bereans and yet you would limit me!

    Your bottom line is not my bottom line. Everyone should first put their faith in God and not in their tools. The one who is paralyzed to inaction does not yet understand our Father.

    Your example of someone at Starbucks has an answer (Rom 14:23 NIV) “But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.” If you have to ask God if it is OK, then for you it is not, because you doubt.

    Insurance is not a tool, it is a business. It is not neutral, it exists to make money. I agree that it will be good if good people operate it or bad if bad people run it. (Mark 10:18 NIV) “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.”
    (Luke 18:19 NIV) “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.” If there are no good people, then it has to be bad. We agree!

    You say, “If you were to hit, my car, total it, send me to the hospital, and kill my wife and maybe one of my children, and send me into financial ruin, can you tell me that you wouldn’t feel any obligation?” and my answer is I would not feel any obligation. I certainly would feel bad, but not obligated.

    If insurance was indeed fair, then the one that wanted protection should buy it, but the insurance industry has managed to twist any accident into a purposeful event and treats it as though it was done on purpose. Someone must be blamed and therefore responsible. I remember when an accident was just that, but it is not treated so now. By the way, why did you include “and kill my wife and maybe one of my children”? How much would insurance cost that would bring your wife and maybe one of your children back?

    Actually, I have to laugh when you said “send me into financial ruin”. Surely you have insurance for that! That is almost just too funny!

    The law is God’s will. Necessary, because there are no good people.

    You say, “I think we know better than that” as if I do not!

    I have written another article on insurance, but I have not decided to post it yet. If you did not like this one, you will hate the next.

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