THE TWO WITNESSES

There are some that say Jesus can come at any time. That all of prophecy has been fulfilled and there is nothing yet to be accomplished. Well, perhaps they are correct, but I have a hard time with the “Two Witnesses” when I think all things have been accomplished.

 

God said that He will give power to the two witnesses (Rev 11:6 NIV) “These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.”

 

At one time I thought them to be metaphoric and to be Melchizedek and Jesus who were the two highest priests in the Bible. However it is said in Revelation 11:8 (NIV)  Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. So it seems to me that neither witness can be Jesus.

 

So it seems to me that these two are actually men and not metaphors. They will cause great torment for everyone in the world with their power: all the while proclaiming the true God. They will not be hidden, the world will know about them and the God that sent them.

 

If these two witnesses must prophesy for almost three and a half years (1260 days – 3.5 years is 1277.5 or 1278.5 days) and then be publicly executed for the whole world to see, at least to see their bodies, then we are more than three and a half years from the end, because we have yet to hear about them.

 

If you think that I do not display much love and am not much of a Christian because of that, then consider the “Two Witnesses” and how much love they will display to the world. True love is a result of what is said and done; not merely a perception of it. The two witnesses will torment the people of the world in order to attempt to turn them toward God. It should be apparent that treating the world good has not turned everyone toward God. God will use any and all means to wake us up and turn us toward Him and the torment that the two witnesses will unleash on the world at the end of time will be His last attempt.

 

“O”, by the way, I am not one of the witnesses. I tested the possibility and there was no plague. Just thought you would get a laugh out of that.

18 Responses to THE TWO WITNESSES

  1. M. Patterson says:

    😀 Yeah, I don’t think I got the plague you sent my way. Could you try again?

    That would be some power, though.

  2. astudent says:

    ha-ha
    M. Patterson,

    You sure you want me to try again? It might have just not been my time!

    Seriously, if it is possible for me to be serious, in your comment you used the word “would” and it triggered my mind to say “No, either “is” or “will”. That made me realize that there could be another possible scenario for the two witnesses. Perhaps they are striking the earth with all kinds of plagues now and we will not understand that it is them until just before they stop. That would mean that we are less than three years from the return of Jesus. The world did not understand Jesus and maybe they will not recognize the two witnesses until they are told. All of the natural disasters that the world is having these days are what started me to contemplate the two witnesses. This is really an odd period of time indeed.

    Muslims will not admit the two witnesses are responsible for plagues, because it has been revealed in Revelation and they will have nothing to do with the New Testament. Atheist will not, because they would no longer be atheists. Even though it is true that they will not admit it, they will know and they will applaud the death of the two witnesses.

  3. M. Patterson says:

    I didn’t use the word “would” to refer to the hypothetical; I assure you.

    I don’t think that the two are currently in their ministry, as the prophecy always precedes the plague. No plague strikes from God without a verbal warning. However, I do see your point, as I’ve struggled with the idea for a couple of decades now, which is that had they prophesied, no one would have listened. I’m guessing that it would take a few plagues before people start to notice the ones who predicted them. However, their time seems to coincide with the rule of the Anitchrist, which will certainly be visible. His power will be quite enigmatic, also. I’m not seeing that, yet, though we may be close.

  4. pgwpoot says:

    I don’t claim to be a prophet and only speak for my own belief. but I believe the bible when it says a day is a year therefore we should be looking for two witnesses that prophecy for 1260 years. I can see only the bible the old testament and the new testament, interesting that witnesses give a testimony. The bible was originally written on scrolls-about 692 it was put in book form and presumably copied from then-add 1260 days (years) brings it to about 1952 (given power +the whole world does know about them and that they come from god-books are bound in sackcloth and also the content of a book is called its body)The two witnesses have the power to cause plagues and drought etc. only God has that power. when they finish the beast will wage war against them-I have to suggest that is happening bibles have been removed from schools hospitals planes etc. the people will be happy because of the death of these two they will celebrate and send present to each other- remember when christmas was about God now people swap presents for their own gratification and an awful lot of kids dont even know the true meaning its become a greed fest.
    the beast is making war I dont know how long for
    I don’t know if there are two more people to come maybe there is maybe there isnt I’ll wait and see but I do know that with or without them prophecy is being fulfilled now
    the two olive trees and the two candlesticks is the old and new testaments, the oil and the wine, and cover every religion that derives of either.

  5. astudent says:

    M. Patterson,

    Well, you have made me think again. I searched the Bible for the word antichrist and it is only in the Bible (NIV & KJV) 4 times. It always refers to more than one person and first John 2:18 (KJV) says, “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” For some reason the NIV uses the words “last hour”, but that doesn’t seem right to me.

    Anyway it seems that the word antichrist means anyone who is against Jesus. The false prophet that is to come will be an antichrist but I do not think there is a man that is “The antichrist”.

    After thinking about it again I believe I will return to the idea that the two witnesses are Melchizedek and Jesus. There are so many parts that fit and only a few that I don’t seem to be able to reconcile. Perhaps I will write another post because it is to long for a comment.

  6. astudent says:

    pgwpoot,

    I really like different ways to interpret Scripture. That should be apparent when anyone reads my posts. I don’t interpret Scripture different just to be different, but we do not understand much of God’s word and when He gives us some understanding that is new it usually sounds different than what we have been accepting as true.

    I tried viewing the two witnesses the way you have and I could reconcile many of the clues or at least I could see some perceptions like you did. I had some trouble with Scripture standing on their feet and a few other statements, but over all I thought I might be able to agree with your way of looking at it.

    However I did find what seems like a flaw that is too large for me to reconcile. If the two witnesses were the Old and New Testament then about 1955 or 6 they would have been taken to Heaven and would no longer be here and of course they still are. Do you have some way to reconcile this?

  7. pgwpoot says:

    I shall try, first, presuming the two witnesses are the testaments and in the 1950’s the beast attacks them, which started to happen , originally there was an outcry people were outraged but over time apathy has prevailed. then they are defeated and killed. It does not state in revelations how long this process takes I reckon we are currently between fight them and defeat them

    From here we go from what I believe to mere musings:-If we are currently between fight and defeat then defeat means they will be banned more and more in public places (if there are any left ) but that is only defeated and not killed. The only way I can think of to kill a banned book is to collect and burn them. So the anti christ appears convinces the world he is God why would they need their bibles? either he bans them and collects them for a big bonfire or people willingly hand them over and have town burnings I think I think it would happen in hundreds of places -how better to lose the significance of something than in repetition. This would go on for 31/2 years (the year for a day thing) and their bodies will lie in the streets ….People from all nations, tribes, languages and races will look at their bodies for three and a half days and will not allow them to be buried. The popular belief is that every one will watch this event on tv (which maybe they will) but I suspect that a lot of different people will witness it – the bible says so.

    So Every town has its burning and accepts the anti christ then we get to the tricky part 31/2 years of burning bibles then they stand up mmm… from here I go from mere musing to …????

    I have had the thought that the last place that they burn them -spiritually known as Sodom or Egypt-(have to wait and see on that one) the smoke forms images of Jesus and ?? (perhaps Moses) then they went up to heaven in a cloud -of smoke) …..

    I am not a prophet and don’t claim to have all the answers actually I don’t claim to have many at all but the belief that there are two more witnesses to arrive seems to me to come from not being able to see how revelations could mean anything else rather than what the bible actually says or maybe its a layer yet to emerge

    I am coming like a thief in the night

    The standing on the feet bit honestly puzzles me maybe thats God /Jesus arriving I don’t know but I’m so much better with hindsight
    I try not to conform the bible with what I can explain but try and concentrate on what it says and I don’t completely discount the two witnesses theory-there are smarter people than me studying this-I just dont see it

  8. pgwpoot says:

    well I have not been able to get the feet thing out of my head-I still don’t know if I’ve got it but it occured to me that that if i was pushed/knocked/fell over to put myself right /upright I would get up or stand on my feet could it be things being put right? maybe it is Jesus coming – good old judgement day…….may be I should wait for hindsight

  9. astudent says:

    pgwpoot,

    I think we both have the same problem with taking the verses to mean that there will be two witnesses that will come later. It seems that they are too important to just show up at the end. They are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth (Rev 11:4).
    The only two beings that seem that important to me are Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I agree with your interpretation to some extent, because the Bible is their witness. Without the Bible we would not know or understand the little that we do.
    The NIV calls them men, but the KJV does not, so in that sense they could be Books, however I can not reconcile how the Testaments could have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. Could a Book that can not be changed do this? Of course the verse does not say that they do so, only that they have the power. One could say that the plagues are already written in them and there are plagues so as who ever does anything against Israel will be disciplined for doing so, but I don’t see how a Book could “Want” (NIV) or “AS often as they will
    You see I can reconcile you view somewhat, but there seems a small voice somewhere deep in my mind that keeps saying that is not quite right.
    I think that the Melchizedek is the Holy Spirit, because Scripture says Jesus is a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek. I believe that one can reverse that statement and say that Melchizedek is a priest forever, in the order of Jesus. Melchizedek had no genealogy so he is God in the form of a man. So I get the idea that the two witnesses are Jesus and Melchizedek. It also seems logical that Melchizedek is the Holy Spirit, because there was a change in the priesthood when Jesus became high priest. The Holy Spirit is the priest of the Law, or the Old Testament, and Jesus is, I believe, priest of Mercy, or the New Testament. That interpretation, whether or not it is correct, would satisfy my mind about the importance of the identity of the two witnesses.
    Did you notice that the time given to the Gentiles and the time that the two witnesses prophesy is the same amount of time?

  10. pgwpoot says:

    Firstly I think I like your idea of Melchizedek, one to me has always been Jesus and the other I haven’t really ever identified even in my head, Jesus is where my faith lies and thats probably been enough for me and I haven’t put a lot of thought into the other although I totally agree it represents the holy Spirit and Melchizadek seems to make sense.

    With your problem with the conflicting texts I have had the same problem . My solution was to find the oldest English written Bible that I could lay my hands on-printed in 1828 – its too bulky for every day reading but when something doesn’t make sense or seems to read differently in the more modern editions I read that one and take it as a kind of referee-I find it helps.

    Just as a point of reference the two witnesses in the old book are referred to as they, these, olive trees and candlesticks- not men.

    rev 11:5 Fire proceedeth out of their mouth (interestingly not mouths) and devoureth their enemies; and if any man hurt them they must in this manner be killed.
    (which is why I think that bibles will be burned)

    also interestingly in the back of the old book is some lovely old original meanings of words
    Sodom-Their secret, their cement
    Egypt-That troubles or oppresses

    would love any ideas you might have on them,

    as for the witnesses having the power to smite at will – The Bible is the word of God -the word of God is all it would take…

    As for the time of the gentiles I think that was what led me to the two witnesses,
    The temple was i believe finished in about 691 ( or so scholars bellieve) The Bible was put in its current form + the apocrypha in about 692 ( or so scholars believe) I have wondered how long about is. Actually the apocrypha stumped me for a while I considered that maybe the time wouldn’t start until after it was removed but then I read Jesus said there should be two or three witnesses and it all made sense….well to me anyway.

  11. astudent says:

    pgwpoot,

    I see that I left out another reason why I think Melchizedek is the Holy Spirit. It is said that he is the King of Salem and that his name means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.

    Now I don’t know if you have realized that the Law “is” peace. The law consists of the two royal laws the first and most important one is “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” If we could do this we would be at peace with God and the second one is “Love your neighbor as yourself” and if we could obey that there would be no murder, theft, slander, etc. So if Melchizedek is the king of peace then he is the king of the law.

    If the two witnesses are Melchizedek and Jesus it would be right not to call “Them” men, because Melchizedek is a Spirit and not a man. It would also be correct to say fire came from one mouth as Jesus was the only one who said anything and he only said what the Father had taught him. The Spirit of truth does not speak on his own; he speaks only what he hears (John 16:13). I believe the Holy Spirit led Jesus from within, just as he teaches us from within.

    The two witnesses prophesied for three and a half years which is about the same time it is said was the public life of Jesus. After that amount of time Satan was able to attack and kill Jesus. If the Holy Spirit was one with Jesus it might be said that he also was killed. I have to admit that I have some problems with that, because spirits can not be killed and Jesus released the spirit just before death: though released the Bible does not say he left.

    Perhaps I am trying too hard to fit my way of viewing the two witnesses, but to go on anyway: the bodies of the two witnesses are said to lie in the street which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt and that says to me is symbolic of this sinful world. The people of the world refuse to be buried with Christ in baptism and so it can be said that they refuse proper burial for the witnesses. The burial is symbolic and personal for each and everyone.

    I can see ways the other problems can be reconciled, but this comment is getting to long the way it is. I will try to write a post on it.

    As for the original meanings of the two words my first thought was stringing the words together and that would be “Their secret, their cement that troubles or oppresses” the secret is they do not believe in God or His Savior (Though they might tell us they will try to keep it a secret from God) and it glues them to troubles and it also oppresses those who might believe. Of course you realize that is only from someone who’s worst subject is language and is probably “Off the Wall”.

    I don’t know if you have read anything that I wrote on the Trinity, but it looks like I will have to revise my understanding and write another post on the subject. I am only what I claim and that is a student, not a teacher. (1 Cor 8:2 NIV) The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.

    As for the two Testaments being the two witnesses it seems to me that the Testaments are the witnesses to the two witnesses: if that makes any sense. The Old Testament tells us about the priesthood of the Law and the New about the priesthood of Mercy. So even though they are two and they are witnesses I do not think they are the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation. OK, let’s hear it “The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know”. I agree; I prove it over and over!

  12. pgwpoot says:

    I shall think about Sodom and Egypt a little more I like the idea of stringing them together-I like the way you think, even if I don’t agree with it all and vice versa. Maybe its the fact you do rather than take all current theology and run with it, (see any other website) I have enjoyed the challenge of putting my ideas that normally float around my head in some sort of order in writing – who knows I may reappear on another of your posts one day-until then God Bless

  13. Jacob says:

    I have identified the tow witnesses. They have already come and gone. I can send you the document that I am putting together that explains them in detail. Write to me at thetwowitnesses@gmail.com. Jacob

  14. astudent says:

    pgwpoot,

    I like the way you think also, because you do. I have found that writing my views and opinions have helped me greatly to understand God’s word.

    I have also found that God seldom teaches what we are trying to understand when we are trying. As an example I have never thought of the Bible as a witness. I always thought of a witness as a person, however the Bible says that all of Israel is a witness that God is who He says He is (Isa 43:10-12). If a Nation can be a witness, how much more is the Bible?

    It only makes sense that God does not teach us what we want, at the time we want it, because He knows better what we need and when we need it. I say this because you may well be right when you say the Old and New Testament are the two witnesses. I don’t see it yet, but I will keep thinking about it. God used your comments to cause me to think more about Melchizedek as a High Priest.

    Do you have a blog? If not you might consider it. Writing and thinking about comments will help with your understanding (Take my word for it). That is if you remain a student and keep in mind that (1 Cor 8:1&2) We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.

    You are welcome here anytime. Especially if you disagree with me.

  15. astudent says:

    Jacob,

    It’s not that I do not want to know what you are being led to write, but those who read this blog might want to know also. The idea is for all to consider what anyone has to say. If you are writing a book then we will wait, but if not then we all await your ideas.

    I am leaning (As you can see) toward Jesus and Melchizedek which would also mean that they have come, but not really gone, because the Holy Spirit (Melchizedek) is here. Well, one can not say Jesus is gone either if anyone can be buried with him today.

    Hummmmm, as usual there is more to think about, or a different way to look at something.

  16. gachichio says:

    i am one of the two witnesses.my ministry started on February the 1st 2007. the 3.5 year end of the world(great tribulation will commence 1263.5 days thereafter,i.e. on July 18th 2010 at 9.00.am gmt (universal time),12.00 noon Israel time.even Isaiah 18 says the 2 witnesses (swift messengers) will come from Kenya,which is my country.i know the other of the 2.more materials to follow.

  17. astudent says:

    gachichio,

    I try to take any claim made as true; no matter how bold it is, because I think of Jesus and the Pharisees. If they had considered the claims of Jesus they might have believed him.

    You give a date and time the great tribulation will begin, but Revelation 7:9 (NIV) says, “After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.” and verse 14 says “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation”.
    If the great tribulation is yet to start then how can those who wear white robes could have come from “every” nation, tribe, people and language? There are nations, tribes, peoples and languages that are no longer in the world today. So I think that the end time tribulation is only a part of the great tribulation and the great tribulation began when Eve bit into the forbidden fruit.

    You have said that you are one of the two witnesses and that you know the other, well we are told who one of the faithful and true witnesses is and that is Jesus. (Rev 3:14 NIV) “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation” and he was identified as Jesus in Revelation 1:18 and also 1:5. Actually I believe the other witness is Melchizedek who was “without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever” (Heb 7:3 NIV). And then there is a third witness. Jesus identifies Him as the Father, or God Himself (John 8:18 NIV) I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

    Then it is obvious that your claim does not meet Biblical standards, because there must be two witnesses in order to establish truth. You must have another witness that you are one of the two witnesses and it can not be the other witnesses. The two witnesses are spoken of as one entity and therefore could not be a witness for themselves which is why God is also a witness.

  18. astudent says:

    gachichio,

    Well, I apologize for the tone of my answer. It must be the pressure that I am under. Not much pressure, but I guess it doesn’t take much before I revert to the animal that I am.

    I would be interested to know how you determined the start of the three and half years.

    Messengers can be witnesses however it seems to me that in the context of Isaiah 18 they are only messengers and it also doesn’t say how many messengers.

    I have to admit that God has not given me an understanding of Isaiah 18. How did you determine Kenya is where they are coming from and who is the other witness?

    Even if you will not forgive me I must thank you, because if you had not made your claim I would not have searched “witnesses” again and I had missed the meaning of John 8:18.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: