OK I WAS SLIGHTLY WRONG ABOUT MELCHIZEDEK!!!!

OK so you aren’t as surprised as I am. It seems to me that being wrong about Scripture is a lot like sin. Being a little wrong is about the same as a little sin: it is the same to God and therefore the same to me. Any little sin is the same as great sin. That said I have much sin in my history and because I am human, I will have more in the future. I have been seriously wrong about Scripture in the past and because I am human I will error in the future.

 

If you are laughing up your sleeve at me then why didn’t you tell me that I was slightly wrong? Well maybe you missed it also. Anyway if you are laughing at me, you are laughing with me.

 

The problem with my post “Melchizedek is the Holy Spirit” is that if the Holy Spirit is a separate being and divine then God had, or has two Sons and that is not compatible with the Bible. God only has one son (John 3:16-18 & 4:9).

 

I now think that Melchizedek was Jesus in the form of a man. When the Bible uses the phrase “in the order of” it means in the order of birth. The phrase is used 10 times in 9 verses in the NIV and only two times in the KJV. The KJV uses the phrase “after the order” in 4 of the other verses and makes clear it means in the order of birth in the first three verses that the NIV uses “in the order of”.

 

What I think now is that Jesus was first born a Spirit and then born a man and that is the order of birth; King of Peace (Law) and then King of Kings (Mercy). That is what was meant in Hebrews 7:11: a priest born of God only, not just of man.

 

To say the same thing a different way, when God said “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” he meant His son was and will always be His High Priest: born of Spirit first and then born of man.

 

I believe that God had given me the right understanding of the Holy Spirit some time ago. I described it in my post “The Trinity as you have never heard it”. Some times I manage to confuse myself and I did so when I began to think that Melchizedek was divine and yet was neither God nor Jesus. If I confused you along with myself I apologize.

11 Responses to OK I WAS SLIGHTLY WRONG ABOUT MELCHIZEDEK!!!!

  1. M. Patterson says:

    Melchezidek was not necessarily divine. Keep in mind that the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, dealing with Hebrew issues. At the time of its writing, the Jewish people believed that only the decendants of Aaron could be priests, which Jesus was not. Also, any non-Jewish/Israelite priest was considered a false priest outright, regardless of what he taught. Furthermore, accepting Gentiles into the main assembly was the same as saying that they were not worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The point of comparing Jesus to Melchezidek was simply to say that

    a) God can ordain a priest who was not descended from Aaron or even Abraham. In fact, Abraham, himself, honored such a priest.

    b) He can be a priest to more than just primarily a Jewish assembly, just as Melchezidek was, yet still be priest to the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    That the Bible never really identifies Melchezidek as divinity is all I need to not see him as such.

  2. astudent says:

    M. Patterson,

    I think that I see a basic difference in our understanding of Scripture. I don’t believe that the Book of Hebrews was written only to the Hebrews of the time that it was written. I believe that the entire Bible was written by God equally, to me, you, and anyone who will listen and time and genealogy has little to do with it.

    God used men to form the Words as a man would use his own hand and I don’t believe there is any untruth what so ever in the Bible. If Melchizedek is not divine then Hebrews 7:3 is not true and if it is true then Melchizedek is divine. ((Heb 7:3 NIV) Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.) The verse is speaking about Melchizedek, not any other priest that God might appoint. What other priest could it be said “Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever”? Any mortal has a genealogy, whether he is a gentile or from any Hebrew tribe and has a beginning of days and an end of life. If the verse is true then what difference does it make if it is written to the Hebrews of the time or to anyone at any time? If it is true when written then is it not always true?

    Any high priest that died was replaced by another mortal and he was replaced likewise (Until Eli and his two sons corrupted the office of high priest). In order to remain a high priest forever one would have to be immortal. Psalms 110 was written a long time before Hebrews and it also said that Melchizedek was, or is, a priest forever.

    It should be apparent that because there is only one high priest at a time that any mortal high priest is only symbolic of the true High Priest. Also because there is only one high priest at a time it should be apparent that the Son of God is and was that High Priest: the names given to the Son are representative of Him at that time: Melchizedek (king of righteousness or king of peace) and Jesus (help of Jehovah or savior).

    Though I do agree with your two points I believe that the Bible certainly does identify Melchizedek as divine; it just doesn’t identify Him as the Son of God. Well not openly, but it doesn’t leave any other option that I can see: at this time.

    Thanks for the comment as it made me look at Scripture from a different angle. Some times a point seems different when it really is only the angle that it is viewed from that is different. The man that stands under a large object says that it is above him and the man that stands above the same object says that it is below him. The object is the same; only the angle is different. It is very difficult for either man to agree with the other, because both can plainly see the object from their angle. From where I stand I see Melchizedek as divine, but you do right by not believing me: I am only a student, not a teacher.

  3. astudent says:

    M. Patterson,

    It has been almost 6 years sense these comments were traded. Therefore, I doubt if M. Patterson will read this. However, for those that might, I have reached the same side of the stone that he was viewing Scripture from! That is not to say that I view Scripture exactly as he does, because it seems that no two Christians view Scripture the same.

    I can see that Hebrews 7:3 can be said about someone who is not God.

    Wisdom was given birth before the world was made, from the beginning (Pro 8:22-31). If wisdom is the Holy Spirit, and that seems right, then it answers many questions.

    Some questions are ‘Who was God speaking with in Gen 3:22’. It answers many questions about what seems to say there is more than one God, when God says there is only one.

    You see, I can learn, and I am still learning.

  4. Omega1013 says:

    I had a similar thought about Melchisedec being the Holy Spirit, although my reasons were different. I based my opinion on the description of Hebrews 7. My thoughts are incorrect as well because this would still create two high priests and I think God only had one high priest at any given time. I’m still working on this puzzle.

  5. ese okposio says:

    You were right in your initial post! Melchizedek is the Holy Spirit. He alone just like God the Father has no Father! He, the Holy Spirit has always been with the Father as mentioned in the Book of Genesis. He is a Son of God too! In truth, When you read about the “First Born” in some Bible translation of Hebrew 1 or when you read about the Son in Ps 2:1-7, a deep understanding of the activities of the Son in these verses confirm they are the activities of the Holy Spirit!. He is the Lord at the Right Hand of God(Adonai) in Ps 110. When you read of the activities done by the Lord at the Right, in Psalm 110, you will be convinced He is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Same Person who declared that He was with God from everlasting, from the very beginning in Proverbs 8:22-36. The Holy Spirit is the First that issued out of God The Father and because He will Come as the Last for the Judgement, He addresses Himself as the:Alpha and Omega, the beginning and ending, the One who is and which was and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY!
    If you read the Heb 1:9, I may want to paraphrase,” God has anointed this “Son” with the oil of gladness above His fellows. Who are these fellows? Angels. But this Son or Angel has an excellent name. What name? God’s Name. See Exodus 23:20-22. I will paraphrase. Behold I send an Angel….beware of Him and obey His Voice, provoke Him not, for He will not pardon your transgressions. For my NAME is in Him.
    Let us go back now to Hebrews 1 again, between Hebrews 1: 8-12, God calls this Divine Being(Angel), Son, Lord and God! One can conclude from scriptures that Melchizedek is Holy Spirit and also Son, Lord and God.

  6. ese okposio says:

    Melchizedek is in truth the Lord God Almighty

  7. astudent says:

    ese okposio,

    You are correct and you say it well. Thanks for the comment.

    God has given us a great puzzle and it is our pleasure to seek understanding.

    It seems to me that the final answer might lie in John 17:20-26. I believe that the Glory that God gave Jesus was the Holy Spirit (Mat 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, and John 1:32). It was so important that it is in all four Gospels.

    When we read those accounts, because the Gospels are written about the life of Jesus, we automatically think that our Father meant Jesus, the man, when He said this is my son. However, perhaps He was referring to the Spirit instead of the man.

    This would seem right to me and it still agrees with Jesus being the first born. He was the first to be born of the Spirit. He went through the same ritual as we do, that is baptism.

    Though he was born of the Spirit he gave up the Spirit (Mat 27:50 & John 19:30). That is the second death, to be separated from God. That is the real death that Jesus died for us, not the physical death that he also died.

    When we look at the life of Jesus we see God, because God was in Jesus (John 17:21). If we live as we should, and do as we should, perhaps others will see God in us; for He truly is in us.

    (John 17:20-26 NIV) “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.”Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

  8. ese okposio says:

    I agree with you on certain of your submission but not all. I agree God The Father was in Jesus, hence He is Lord, Son of God and the “begotten Son”. He was “conceived” of the Holy Ghost, Mathew 1:20. Also note He was not conceived by God the Father. The idea or plan for His Coming was that of the Holy Ghost! It is very important that in the reading of the scriptures we separate the Power of the Holy Ghost and the Holy Ghost in Person. If you read John 16: 8 -15, (I may need to paraphrase) you will see that Another Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit WILL come to reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness and judgement. He shall guide you into all truth. He shall glorify Jesus and receive from Jesus and show to you. You may read of the power of the Holy Ghost in Acts 1:8. So as I have mentioned earlier, the Holy Spirit is the Firstborn for He issued first out of God to create the Heavens and the earth. And so in Isaiah 44: 6, He declares and I state: Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the Lord of Hosts, I am the First and I am the Last and beside Me, there is no God.
    God and His Spirit had existed from everlasting, and with the Coming of Lord Jesus(John 3:16), when God sent his Son or when God gave a part of Himself(i.e Son) or when God made a sacrifice by giving a part of Himself, then the TRINITY! This was foreseen by the Psalmist in Psalm 110.
    The Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit will manifest in the final days, or the end time as promised by Lord Jesus Christ for the Judgment. He is called various names, Son of Man in the synoptic gospels and the revelation of John, He is called Son, Lord and God in Hebrews 1. He is called Son in Psalm 2. He is called Son of Man, Son of God, First and Last in Rev chapters 1 and 2. He is the Lord God Almighty. Melchizedek is the Holy Spirit, the One that Jesus promised

  9. astudent says:

    ese okposio,

    We are not far apart with our understanding. I have experienced this in the past. Because neither of us has perfect understanding we are bound to disagree at some point.

    It just might be the words that cause the differences. It seems as though the first definition that one applies, in their mind, to a word is what that word means to them. If they are speaking to someone else and that person does not apply the same definition to the word it causes disagreement. Most words have more than one definition, so there is much confusion generated when one person speaks to another.

    This should come as no surprise as the LORD confused the language of the whole world (Gen 11:9). Of course that was the right thing to do, because we should not look to other men for understanding: look only to God. We were given the Holy Spirit to teach us all things and we have no need of a human teacher.

    Just to illustrate, I once knew a man that if I said anything about the law it triggered a reaction in him and he would start to lecture me about how the law condemns and he was not under the law. He was right about the law condemning him, but because the word “law” caused this unnatural reaction, the man never understood just how wonderful the law really is.

    Please pardon me, but your emphasis of the word “TRINITY” indicates, to me that it is such a word for you. It is not in Scripture and therefore it is an invention of man and it hinders understanding. The Bible clearly states there is only one God and any concept that might declare different, whether or not it is meant to further understanding, only hinders it.

    Having said all of this I believe it benefits us to share our thoughts, because though we cannot get the answers from each other, we can get questions that we have not thought of.

    You have caused me to rethink this subject and it has been a great help to me, so I thank you for your comments.

    I had always thought of the father of Jesus as God. That is what man has always told me and I listened to man instead of God! However, that is not what God says. God plainly said to King David “(2 Sam 7:12 NIV) “When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom.”

    Well it is plain to me now that the father of Jesus is David and the son that God proclaimed in Mat 3: 16&17 was/is the Holy Spirit, who came down from Heaven and rested on the son of man. And the Son of God was the one who led the son of man into the desert. (Mat 4:1)

    Jesus, the man, was the Lamb of God raised up for the perfect sacrifice.

    You cite Mat 1:20 as proof that Jesus was the Son of God, but it is really proof of 2 Sam 7:12. Jesus was the son of David. It was the first case of artificial insemination.

    What would have been very confusing to those of Biblical times is rather easy for us to understand. Even man can artificially inseminate a woman with the sperm from a man that has been dead for years.

    It seems to me now that the Holy Spirit is the “mind” of God. (1 Cor 2:16 NIV) “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.”

    It is the Holy Spirit that we were given when we were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 11:16&17). We are given only one gift; the Holy Spirit, the same Holy Spirit that led Jesus. As I understand now, that is the Holy Spirit, the Mind of God, the Son of God.

    In order to understand the purpose of the Son of God one must understand death. Man believes that death is the end of life, but life really never ends for anyone. After the first death, physical death, the soul either spends eternity in Hell or Heaven. Life is the breath of God (Gen 1:30&2:7) and each of us has that gift and it is both eternal and irrevocable.

    So, death is really separation. The first death is eternal separation from this world and everything in it and the second death is eternal separation from God and all the blessing from Him.

    Understanding death and knowing that the Son of God died in our place, one can see that at some point the Son of God stopped being God and was separated from God in our place. So though Scripture calls the Son of God, God, at some point He must be separated and from that point, it seems to me, to rightly be called Jesus, which is the name given to Him by the angel of the Lord (Mat 1:20&25), or perhaps the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS., which is what is written on His thigh (Rev 19:16).

    This comment is getting to long. I cannot cover all of my understanding in one comment and probably cannot cover it all in any way, shape, or form. So, here is my understanding of the Holy Spirit in a condensed version.

    The Son of God was born before anything was made (Gen 1:2, Prov 8:22-31). He showed Himself as Melchizedek (Gen 14:18) and came to the son of man, remaining on him (John 1:32) and became one with the son of man, when the son of man was raised from the dead. Then, though He has all of the power of God (1 Cor 15:27), He is no longer God and will even give up that power as the last of His sacrifice (1 Cor 15:28). Because He had no sin, God cannot reject Him, and because He lives in us, God cannot reject us. God cannot reject us without rejecting Jesus, so we are safe, but only because the Son of God died for us.

    This has been a wonderful gift from God. A celebration of Easter for me. You have triggered this part of my search for understanding and I thank you for it. However, I will not speak any more about it; at this time. I am close to saying something that is not lawful to say (2 Cor 12:4 KJV) “How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.” (I use the KJV, because it says what I believe clearer than my usual NIV). The NIV says that we are “not permitted to tell”, but we are not under the law and therefore can say anything. However, there are things that would hinder rather than help, and I do not want to hinder.

    ese okposio, thank you.

  10. Hampton says:

    Bro !…Jesus was never created !…He had no beginning…Neither did God the Father nor God the Holy Ghost !…But Jesus had a birth in the flesh !….

    The Holy Ghost does nothing but Glorify and edify the Son !

    The Holy Ghost guides and leads and blesses !

    All of these is what Melchizedek did ! Especially when he broke bread and wine with Abraham !

  11. astudent says:

    Hampton,

    Ha, Bro, You need to research your comments!

    Stop listening to others and do your own homework. Read God’s word and listen to Him. Others will only lead you astray. That includes me. Test what I say with what God says.

    Jesus was indeed created. He had an earthly father, just like we had. His earthly father was King David. (2 Sam 7:12 through part of 14 NIV) When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father, and he will be my son.

    That was the first case of artificial insemination. That was a beginning and that is what Scripture says, I am only repeating it. I will say that it is difficult to separate the Holy Spirit (The Son of God) from Jesus (The Son of Man), but after a lot of thought and much contemplation of Scripture, it is possible. After all we are given the Holy Spirit to teach us all things (John 14:26).

    Do you see that God has given the power to men and now even man can take semen that has been frozen and implant it in a virgin who will then give birth to a child?

    I see the Holy Spirit as also having a beginning, but perhaps you should grasp the concept that Jesus had a beginning before we research the Spirit.

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