I haven’t written about baptism lately, so I feel that it is time.

If you think baptism is a work or it is unnecessary for salvation, then I would ask you the same question that Jesus asked the chief priests and the elders of Israel.

(Mat 21:25 NIV) John’s baptism–where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or from men?” They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’
(Mark 11:30 NIV) John’s baptism–was it from heaven, or from men? Tell me!”
(Luke 20:4 NIV) John’s baptism–was it from heaven, or from men?”

The people that Jesus asked were afraid of being stoned to death, if they answered “From men”, but you don’t have to worry about being stoned today. The world will applaud you if you say “From men”. However, it would seem that no one, but God is asking. The only reference found of baptism is in the Bible, so where did baptism come from?

There are those who think baptism is only a sign and if you are one then consider Luke 7:29&30.

(Luke 7:29&30 NIV) (All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus’ words, acknowledged that God’s way was right, because they had been baptized by John. But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)

Ask yourself if you are any different than all the people. Then ask yourself if God’s way is right. What is God’s way? Don’t answer as I and all true believers know God’s way and we know it is right. You see, baptism has power to grant understanding: that is you see “if” you have been baptized.

Well, this post is to explain the mechanics of baptism, so let me explain.

Every man sins and God will not become one with a sinner. God is pure and would not soil Himself by uniting with the impure.

There are three parts to baptism. John’s baptism is a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. It is the first part of baptism.

The second part is that the individual is buried. That may seem odd that one is buried alive, however the person is dead in sin, they may seem alive to others, even to themselves, but they are dead to God, so they are not buried alive at all.

The third part is that they are raised a new person and that new person has not sinned: at least not yet. Then God can become one with that person, because at that moment in time they are pure and can receive the Holy Spirit.

Without the Holy Spirit one only has men to lead. All men are flawed, so no man is perfectly qualified to lead. However, the Holy Spirit is perfect and wants to lead everyone to understanding.

If you are someone that clings to the belief that we can not work for salvation, then calm down as someone else does the work of baptism. All a new believer has to do is let someone baptize them.

By the way, does anyone believe that we should just sprinkle dirt on a dead body and call it a burial? That body would smell so bad that there could be no question about the matter. If you have just been sprinkled and you have let someone convince you that you have been baptized, then ask God if that is true. Then seek His answer from His Word.

Also as Scripture says John’s baptism, is a baptism of repentance. Can a baby repent? What sin would a just God hold against a baby? How can it be said that a baby could be baptized when it doesn’t even know what is happening to it? Doesn’t the person have to know they are a sinner in order to know they must repent?

I’m good at giving advice when it wasn’t asked for, so let me continue. If you have not been properly baptized, then go, as soon as you can, to a church that still practices it and ask to be baptized. You do not have to join that church, as all of God’s people are the church. If that church demands that you join their congregation in order to be baptized then seek a church that doesn’t make such a demand. I also would advise you not to ask, or even tell, the leaders of a church, that accepts sprinkling, what you are contemplating, or have done. It really is none of their business. It is your life that is at stake, not theirs. The only thing they have in the game is their pride in what they think they know and their income. For if they were to agree with you, then they would lose their position and they might have to work with their hands for a living, as the Bible says they should.

You see John came to prepare the way for the Lord. He brought baptism and baptism prepares the way for all the people of the Lord.


  1. liferestored says:

    Actually, John did not “bring” baptism. The pharasies would baptise when a gentile would convert to Judahism (sp). There was a long cerimony and part of it was baptism. That is why they were so offended when John was baptising Jews. Jews (in their mind) did not need to be baptised as they were allready saved and chosen. The baptism of water is only a show of faith. It has nothing to do with salvation. Or, you take what Jesus Christ did on the cross into your own hands. Did Jesus tell the thief on the cross, im glad you believe now; to bad you cannot be baptised! No. I know in the Mormon faith they believe you must be baptised to be saved as well as a few christian chruches. I find this to be absurd. You cant tie ANY work to salvation. And before you say coming to faith is a work, no its not. Whew. Just stumbled onto your post.

  2. astudent says:


    John brought “John’s Baptism” (Mat 21:26, Mark 11:30, Luke 20:4, Acts 1:22, 19:3, &19:4) which is the baptism that I was referring to.

    (Acts 19:4 NIV) “Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” That would not/could not be a baptism that was practiced by the Pharisees.

    You say that baptism is only a show of faith, but that is not what the Bible says. (Luke 7:29&30 NIV) (All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus’ words, acknowledged that God’s way was right, because they had been baptized by John. But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)

    Perhaps it would help if you read my post “The thief on the cross was baptized”. He already had been baptized!

    Notice the verse before those two. (Luke 7:28 NIV) I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” One should ask themselves “What made John so important?” and it seems to me that it is because he brought baptism. It certainly was not because he wore camel skins, leather belts and ate locust and wild honey.

    You say that you cannot tie any work to salvation! What language are we conversing in?
    “(The American Heritage Dictionary) – WORK (wûrk) n. Abbr. wk. 1. Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.” Even thinking about salvation is work by the definition of the word! As is thinking about anything!

    (Mat 3:1&2 NIV) “In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” (Mat 4:17 NIV) From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” Is not repentance a work?

    (Mat 7:21 NIV) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Can one do the will of the Father and yet do nothing?

    (Mat 11:12 NIV) From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. Can forceful men lay hold of the kingdom of heaven by doing nothing?

    Lay hold of Calvin’s book along with my conclusions and throw them as far as you can. Then, if you have been baptized into the Holy Spirit, pick up God’s word, and let the Spirit teach you. Don’t throw my questions away without consulting the Spirit to see if what I said was true. Be a Berean not a Calvinist.

  3. liferestored says:

    I read the verses again before and after concerning the second thief and there is no mention of him being baptized. I consider myself neither a Berean nor Calvinist. I consider myself saved by the Grace of God.

    What the Spirit told me when I was saved was just that. I was saved. (Now this was before I was baptized). Should God have taken me then, would my name have been blotted from the book of life? Do you think ones name is not in the book of life until they are baptized? And, are there those who get baptized who have absolutely NO relationship with God? I think you should search what the Spirit sais on this matter. Now strictly speaking of “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” then yes, I think we agree. This happens when one is restored to God by the blood of the Lamb. Without the Spirit, there is no life. That is why Jesus told his disciple to “let the dead bury the dead”.

    First, I believe with a true saving “faith” comes relationship with God. Why else did God say there will be a time when those who say “we prophesized and cast out demons in your name” and he will say depart from me for I never knew you. You see, even the demons have a faith that God is God. What God wants is a relationship to be a part of our lives as it was in the beginning. A true and knowing relationship. As you know, this was made possible by the death and resurrection of our Savior.

    I think there are 2 kinds of “works”. The first kind of “works” is what a True Relationship Faith creates. They will know us by our works. That our lights for the Kingdom of God burn bright due to works of faith because of our love for our God. We are to act on our faith and show the world we are no longer in chains to death and be a witness to the glory of God. Gods kingdom is at hand and is spreading through the works of the genuine and true “chruch” (born again believers) because it is the Holy Spirit guiding–It is his Spirit that guides us to do this…It comes NATURALY after being born again and receiving the Holy Spirit. I also beleive your comment of “repenting being a “work” falls into this first catagory. Without a true relationship, without his Holy Spirit guiding us; the only “works” fall into the second category.
    Now the second type of “works” is the self righteous in nature. They are the works of “look what i am doing and how great I am” Is this not what the Pharisees did? Is this what Jesus was talking about when he remarked of “for I never knew you”? I don’t think I need to go any further about this type of work as we see it among many other “organizations” such as the Mormon church, the Catholic church and many others who (I believe) through twisted theologies; Satan diminishes the Light and Grace of God and keeps many from a true relationship. Now, back to baptism… I do not believe that being baptized falls in this catagory (mostly). Unfortunatly, you are convinsing me it does at times with the theology you believe conserning the matter.–I was baptized in the ocean one morning by my pastor and it was an expierience I will never forget. I was so blessed by the Holy Spirit and what God had done for me–after giving my life to the Lord; I could not wait to show my faith and be baptised.

    There is nothing “magic” about the act of baptism just as the waifer a catholic priests gives durring communion out does not actually turn into the flesh of Christ as they teach.

    My point is this. If you tie ANY “work” to the BIRTH of your salvation, wither it falls in the first OR second category; you are saying what Jesus did on the cross was not sufficient. You can twist it all you want, but that is the simplicity of it. Thank you for such an honest discussion astudent. I do believe in this matter you are way off the mark. There is nothing you can do (to include being baptized) to gain salvation. ONLY to believe with our hearts and confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord. And if you wish to call that one of the “works” we are discussing– then im afraid we will just go around in circles.

  4. astudent says:


    I see that I was not clear enough. I said that maybe it would help if you read my “Post” “THE THEIF ON THE CROSS WAS BAPTIZED”. I did not say read the verses just before and after those about the thief. One has to read many verses to gain understanding; not just a few. You are not the first person to attempt to show me your understanding and I have made an effort every time to consider it. Would you make an honest effort to understand my view? Would you read my post? I guarantee that I have worked more to write it than you will to read it.

    While I am on my soap box perhaps you should consider what Scripture says about Bereans. (Acts 17:11 NIV) “Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” They even questioned what Paul said. If it was right for them to question the apostle Paul, then it is even more right for you to question me. Examine the Scriptures and see if what I said is true. Be a Berean no matter who is telling, or trying to tell, you something

    You thanked me for an honest discussion and you shall have an honest discussion from me.

    (Mat 28:18-20 NIV) Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    We shouldn’t even be having this conversation. Jesus told us to baptize. He didn’t say that the Spirit would baptize, he told us to do so. He gave a command to baptize and the very next thing that he said was to teach others to obey everything that he commanded. HE COMMANDED US TO BAPTIZE AND TO TEACH OTHERS TOO.

    Then along comes Satan and he tells us it isn’t necessary to be baptized: imagine that, Satan doesn’t obey Christ! Don’t you see that preaching that it is unnecessary to be baptized is preaching against the command of Jesus? It doesn’t matter if baptism is necessary or not. It does matter that we do not preach against it, because those who are just being saved might believe that it is not necessary and therefore not allow themselves to be baptized. Then if they do not feel it necessary they will not teach it and the command of Jesus would be defeated.


    (Rev 3:17 NIV) “You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.”

    You say you do not need baptism that you do not need a thing, but you do not realize….

    This idea that we do not have to do anything to be saved comes straight from Satan. I had to repent and that took and still takes work. If I didn’t continue to work at my salvation, could I expect God to save me anyway? Maybe you could, but if I took that stand then I would have to back into heaven, because I surely couldn’t face my Savior.

    (Phil 2:12 NIV) “Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed–not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence–continue to WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION with fear and trembling,”

    My Savior died the second death for me and by doing so he earned the right to tell me what to do and his command was to baptize. If God judges me at the end of time, I will not have to face Him and explain why I thought it was unnecessary to be baptized, when His son commanded me to do so. And I will not have to grieve over those who were lost because I thought I knew more than His son, who obviously thought it was important to be baptized. So important that he taught it, and commanded it. So important that even He, who had no sin, was baptized.

    I call myself a Christian as you do, but how could I call myself Christian and preach against his commands?

    I believe that we are Christian brothers. I just don’t believe that you have thought long and hard enough about your beliefs. I still am glad that you have shared your beliefs. No one has to agree with me. we only have to agree with God.

    Having said that, I don’t think that I left any way that we could just go around in circles.

  5. liferestored says:

    a student.

    I am afraid that i have not only thought long and hard about what I believe, the Holy Spirit confirms in me what is right.

    I find it interesting you automatically go to me “preaching against baptism” and doing the work of Satan because I am disagreing with you. I do not. What I am preaching against is your message of the act of baptism to be saved.

    I love that you put alot of scripture in your responses. However, I beleive you do not do this to help gain knowlage and only do it to support your view. Now why is this wrong you are asking? Because anyone can copy scripture and use it to support views; dictators do it all the time to support genocide, gay rights advocates do it to support gay marriage etc etc. I read scripture. It is on my heart. I have “an ear” to hear by the Holy Spirit.

  6. liferestored says:

    And when you speak of commands by Jesus there are many. Do not forsake meeting together for example is one of them. So are you going to say if you skip church you are doomed. I would be safe to say that you do not keep all the commands of Jesus. I know this because none of us do. Or do you feel you do? If you do then you may be more confused than I thought on many more issues than this.

    What must a man do to be saved? Believe in his heart and confess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord.

    Do you dispute this? Would you like to add baptism to this verse? I wouldnt.

    What changes a man to do Gods will? The Holy Spirit. And as you know, this does not happen over night. It is a race untill the end. We do wrestle out our salvation daily. The Holy Spirit demands it within us and when we do not; or when we are in sin, do we not feel his Spirit greive within us? His children shurley do. (For they hear my voice and follow).

    I guese I add this part of the conversation because I believe you are more than wrong in this matter. I believe what you are preaching is dangerous to the Kingdom.

    As I said in my last post. I also was baptised. I was blessed by this command of Jesus. I encourage this when anyone is saved. What you do not seem to understand is this command is not to save, it is to confirm to an unbelieving world that Jesus is still Lord and God is still God of our universe. Unless you keep ALL the commands; dont say someone is not saved if they do not keep one. That my brother is a dangerous view to have.

  7. astudent says:


    Why do you quote Rom 10:9 (NIV) “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” and do not say anything about Mark 16:16 (NIV) “Whoever believes AND IS BAPTIZED WILL BE SAVED, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”. These were among the last words that Jesus spoke before he was taken up into heaven, to sit at the right hand of God.

    Let me help you with your view. No one in the Old Testament could have been baptized into Jesus Christ’s death, because at that time Jesus had yet to die. Yet Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus at the mount of transfiguration. I cannot answer that except to say that God would not condemn anyone for something that was not possible. However, it is possible to be baptized now, so we have no excuse.

    Rom 6:3&4 (NIV) “Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” It is clear to me that it is water baptism that is the type of baptism that is spoken of here.

    Rom 6:5 (NIV) “If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.” I have to ask myself that if I was not united with him like that, could I be certain to be united with him in his resurrection and my answer is “no”.

    Act 2:38-39 (NIV) “Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” This verse doesn’t say just confess and believe in your heart.

    In Acts chapter ten, there were believers that received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized with water, or buried with Christ, and Peter ordered them to be baptized. I would say it was so they would be sure of resurrection.

    Gal 3:26&27 (NIV) “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.” Now think about the parable in Matthew chapter 22. The guest that was not dressed properly was thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. I don’t know what you see in that parable, but I see someone that knew about the banquet, was invited to the banquet, and came to it, but without a proper covering. Is not the place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, Hell?

    All right, this discussion has been very good for me. I always thought baptism necessary for salvation and every time I restudied it, I came away with a better understanding. This time is no different other than this time I think I can explain to others exactly why it is vital.

    I will defer quoting Scripture, just so I don’t slow this down. Baptism is a ritual where the dead person is buried with Christ and raised a new person: alive with a life that cannot end. If someone realizes that they have sinned against God and they confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and refuse to be baptized, they are still dead. They cannot be raised with Jesus, if they have not been buried with him. It is not a work that they must do, because it must be done for them. The dead cannot bury themselves. That is the duty and responsibility of the living. The only difference between physical burial and spiritual burial is one can refuse to be spiritually buried.

    Baptism should not be presented as an option. The world is full of the spiritually dead and they stink it up pretty badly. We should not permit the dead to stink up the church. They know nothing about spiritual matters and because they are dead, they cannot learn.

    This is not just Bible study for me: it is personal. I met a man that had confessed and believed in his heart that he was saved. A Christian, like you, had told him that it was only for show and he believed it wasn’t necessary. The Christian meant no harm, but his understanding rolled a bolder in between that man and Jesus. That man has been tricked by Satan, but what man hasn’t been tricked by Satan? I have, but the more I learn the harder it is to trick me.

    Let us all rush to bury the dead. We are the living, because we were buried and raised with Jesus and we have a duty to bury the dead, so that they may be raised a new person, just as we were. The dead cannot bury themselves, that is why Jesus told us to baptize.

  8. liferestored says:

    “Whoever believes AND IS BAPTIZED WILL BE SAVED, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”.

    Is it just me or does the verse not say whoever does not believe and not baptised will be condemned. No it does not. You helped me with my view even more. Let me help you with your view.

    Maybe, just maybe, in this day, to be baptised was a real show of what was in your heart because to do so might mean death. Like “confessing with your mouth” could bring death by a roman soldier because a believer would not give the same to ceaser. Would one do either of these knowing they might be physically condemed to die if they did not truely believe? I think not. Is this the same today? No. As you know, people today in our nation confess and baptise all the time and do not know HIM.

    This discusion has been good for me also. Since I was baptised, you can trust I will be there with you and we can ask God together.

    God love you astudent.

  9. astudent says:


    You are correct, it does not say, ‘Who ever does not believe and not baptized will be condemned’, but it does say both are required, so though it doesn’t use your words, it is clear that baptism is required.

    It’s just you!

    Sometimes I have to laugh at myself. You see, I know that iron cannot be used to sharpen iron and yet I still try. Go figure!

    Look, I am sure that you are my Christian brother and we will meet in Heaven some day, but it is not all about us. Feel free to think in your own mind what ever you wish to think about baptism. However, it is better not to do anything that will cause your brother to fall (Romans 14:21).

    1Co 8:2 (NIV) “The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.” That is universal and is given to both of us, so neither of us understands completely. Taking that into consideration, let us consider the possibilities. If I am right and everyone is baptized, then everyone is saved and there is no problem. If I am wrong and you are right, then everyone is still saved and there is still no problem. However, if you are wrong and some are not baptized, because they believe you, then there is a problem. And for what gain? So that you might be able to say, “I was right”.

    Have you ever been wrong, when you were pretty sure that you were right? As you said, you are baptized and have nothing to fear, so it is not your salvation that hangs in the balance, but another’s just might. Is it right to jeopardize someone else’s salvation for just bragging rights? What if you are wrong?

    Anyway, it has been a pleasure trading comments with you. I hope that I raised as many questions in your mind as you rose in mine.

    God loves us both. I would be happy if He loved you even more than me.

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