BILL NYE vs. KEN HAM DEBATE

If you live in the U.S., you might have heard about the big debate between these two men about evolution and creationism. There really can be no debate, because they are not talking about the same thing!

Mr. Ham is speaking about scripture from that viewpoint and Mr. Nye is only speaking about science. Neither is completely right and neither is completely wrong.

Mr. Ham, like most of us, does not spend enough time contemplating Scripture and Mr. Nye spends no time with Scripture.

If you spend much time examining Scripture for yourself, instead of just listening to men, you can see that the six days of creation are not the same as six days of our time.

Two of the days of creation were already past when God made the sun and moon. These lights in the sky were to mark the seasons, days, and years for humanity. Because two days had already past, it is plain that the same standard for the seven days revealed in Scripture are not the same as our standard. They are not twenty four hour days.

Gen 1:13-15 (NIV) And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day. And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.

There are six days of creation and they are God’s days not man’s days. God’s days are not measured with the same standard that He gave us to measure our days.

Psalms 90:4 (NIV) For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
2Peter 3:8 (NIV) But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Now, because you are reading this, you are probably a Christian and you are thinking that I have judged Mr. Ham when I said that he is not spending enough time in Scripture. I am not applying a different standard to Mr. Ham, because I am also guilty of not spending enough time contemplating the Word of God.

As I understand, Mr. Ham is correct when he says God made everything so there is no evolution. And Mr. Nye is correct when he says not everything was made in six days, because he is applying man’s standard for length of time of the six days.

One more thing about God’s six days. We are still in the sixth day. God has yet to finish His work and therefore has not entered into His rest.

John 5:17 (NIV) Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”

30 Responses to BILL NYE vs. KEN HAM DEBATE

  1. Liferestored says:

    I think there is to much man made interpretation in both. I do think God was capable in creating all in 6 days as the word says. I mean what is hallarious to me is we can not even accurately report what really hapened 200 years ago with climate, population, crime, and faith. Mans attempt at figuring out Gods plan is futile. He only demands one thing. We believe and accept what HE did on the cross due to HIS love for us. Nothing else. And all else will fall short.

  2. astudent says:

    liferestored,

    I agree that there is man made interpretation on both sides. I also believe that God could make everything in six days, but as you see I do not believe that He uses our standard and I do not be believe that He has finished His work. Using God’s standard, that places us in the sixth day. But then, I said that, didn’t I? I guess we all tend to repeat a point.

    The funny thing about science is it is always changing. What we thought was correct yesterday we find wrong and instead of admitting it is impossible to believe in something that continually changes, we just change the textbooks (sometimes) and go on believing! I wonder just exactly, what one believes in, if they base their beliefs on science.

    I kind of agree with you when you say that we must accept what was accomplished on the cross. However, one must admit that they are a sinner and in need of a Savior first. I also believe that after one becomes a Christian, they must try to live as one. There are many that would argue that, but I would say that if one doesn’t try to live as a Christian, then they do not believe.

  3. Don Drake says:

    Ken Ham address the issue of six days at this website: https://answersingenesis.org/why-does-creation-matter/the-necessity-for-believing-in-six-literal-days/

    I think you might reconsider some of your views if you read this site and others that can be found on creation websites. It has been rather thoroughly studied.

  4. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    Thank you for the suggestion. I did look at the site that you recommended and I agree with some of what Mr. Ham says, but he says the days of creation are literal days, and he means 24 hr days as we are subject to.

    First, I have to say that I believe your advice is meant to help me, but I have to wonder why you sent me to a man, in order to learn the Word of God!

    When I was Baptized I received the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 2:12, 6:19) and I received the Spirit so that He could teach me all things (1 John 2:27). I view the Spirit as the perfect teacher all others are only students. If you want to understand the Word of God, then ask God, not men. Yes, that includes me, as I am only a man.

    When I compare Mr. Hams claim that the days of creation are the same 24 hr days of man I find verses that cannot be reconciled.

    If the days of creation where literal days, then God has already entered His rest. (Gen 2:2 NIV) “By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.” I have to ask myself, ‘Does God rest every Saturday, and then return on Sunday to resume His work’? I see that everything that happens on other days happens on Saturday as well. If God is resting, could this be? Then consider these verses, (Job 34:14 & 15 NIV) “If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, all mankind would perish together and man would return to the dust.”

    That is what I understand, but that is by applying logic to the question of literal days. However, though it makes sense, logically, we are told plainly that God has not entered His rest. (John 5:17 NIV) Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” So, the seven days of creation cannot be literal, because God entered into His rest on the seventh of those days (the days of creation) and God has not entered His rest: yet.

    There have been many Saturdays sense God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years” and yet God is always at His work.

    I am not suggesting that you study what men say about the Word of God, but study the Word itself and consider the claims of man to be only questions (mine also). If you do this, then you might also reconsider some of your views.

    By the way, have you noticed that there is no night in the description of creation? Only evening and morning! Night is part of a literal day. If you are as curious as I am, you are probably asking the Spirit within you, ‘Why is this?’

  5. Don Drake says:

    Evening and morning, if you take scripture exactly as written, mark the end of one day and the beginning of another. This happens with one rotation of the earth. Then, to emphasis that they are days as anyone reading would understand days, a number is applied to each day. I think God is clearly showing that He created in six 24 hour days.

    He rested from His creation work on the seventh day. That does not mean that he rested from maintaining His creation and overseeing it. That work continues even unto today.

    Letting the Word of God speak for itself we find, in Exodus 20:11, that God says explicitly, “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.” Can anything be more clear than that? Is God lying or trying to deceive us? I don’t think so. Let us believe what He says without trying to make it into something else.

  6. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    I try very hard to understand Scripture as it is written. However, God hid much of understanding. Probably so we would have to demonstrate how much we really want to know, by our efforts.

    Two of the days of creation were already past when God made the sun and moon. These lights in the sky were to mark the seasons, days, and years for humanity. Because two days had already past, it is plain that the same standard for the seven days revealed in Scripture are not the same as our standard. They are not twenty-four hour days.

    Did you miss that? To further explain, one cannot have a 24-hour day, marked by the sun (greater light) without a sun to mark it. Seems pretty clear to me.

    You say God rested from creating, but babies are being formed in the womb continually.

    Genesis 2:2 states that God rested from “all” His work. Did He not create a Savior?

    I am not trying to bend Scripture in any way, what so ever. I have no agenda. I am only a student, trying to understand the Word of God.

    I resent the implication that I am trying to make the six days of creation into something else. I also resent when you ask me if God is lying or trying to deceive us. I am not a pagan that you should ask me such questions.

    A 24-hour day at solstice has twelve hours of light and twelve hours of darkness and would not be accurately described as a day without reference to the darkness. Darkness means without light and for all of the days in Genesis God, or our light, is always there.

    A day does not end with evening. A day ends when morning comes, which is also when the next day begins. The sun marks both the end of a day and the beginning of a day, just as God said (Gen 1:14-16).

    I see that you do not understand and I know that, as a student I am not the Teacher. Perhaps, if you ask the Teacher, you will understand. I pray that you will understand even more than I do.

    If I am wrong, how does that affect you?

  7. Don Drake says:

    This is difficult because we are not understanding things the same way. There are Christian scientists who are doing research on these very questions, but you have to get into the websites deeper to understand their suggestions. They also do not say they have all the answers, but starting with the Bible they seek to show how science confirms it.

    Even Hebrew scholars say that the first chapter of Genesis seems to clearly be speaking of 24 hour days. The Hebrew word for day is “yom.” When this is given with an expression like “evening and morning” and then with a number, in all the other times that is done in the Bible it clearly means a 24 hour day. There is no reason to think that it means something different in Genesis 1.

    I came to this blog trying to find something that I took part in some time ago about the number of the beast. It was done by someone who called himself astudent. Was that you?

  8. Don Drake says:

    Astudent, my question about whether God would lie or try to deceive us was not directed toward you. They were rhetorical questions which both of us do not believe. I don’t think you are a pagan. Please accept my apology if you took it that way. And I didn’t mean to imply you were bending Scripture. My emphasis was to take it exactly as written, six days.

  9. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    You are right. We do not understand things in the same way.

    It is kind of funny to me. You see, though I am a fan of science and enjoy searching out what we might call understanding of the world, but I have no faith in science. What was confirmed yesterday, as solid understanding, is refuted today, and what is confirmed today, will be refuted tomorrow.

    Don, you cite scientist and Hebrew scholars, but they are only men.

    I gave you a reason that the days mean something different, but you are looking to men, not to the Word.

    2 Pe 3:8 (NIV) “But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.”

    That verse tells me that God does not live in our time. The seven days of creation are God’s days. They explain what God has, and is doing, so it is the time frame of God, not man.

    2 Pe 3:10 (NIV) “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.”

    You see that the day of the Lord, or the seventh day, God’s day, is yet to come. We are still in the sixth day! Well, perhaps in the beginning of the seventh day.

    There are 437 comments on my post ‘Here is the Number of Man’ so I might be the same astudent, if that is the post you refer to. I skimmed the comments, but I am too lazy to look closely.

    Thanks for straightening me out about my misunderstanding. I am usually pretty thick skinned and do not take offense. My response reveals some pride that I have yet to rid myself of.

    We both want to take the six days exactly as written. My understanding is that they are God’s days and God’s days are not the same time frame as man’s days. You make it very clear that you believe they are the same 24-hour days that we are subject to.

    I use to have the same opinion. After all, God can do anything and if He wanted to create everything in six twenty-four hour days, He certainly could have. I believe there is more to the understanding of the six days, but it is clear that you do not. I can live with that.

  10. Don Drake says:

    I know about 2 Pe 3:8 but that was written to demonstrate the patience of God. Verse 9 clarifies verse 8 by showing that God is not slack but longsuffering. So verse 8 doesn’t have anything to do with how long one of God’s days is. Being eternal, time doesn’t mean much to Him.

    I’m not looking to men. I’m saying that God said He created the heavens and the earth in six days just as He says He did in genesis 1 and Exodus 20:11. I see nothing here that implies they are other than regular 24 hour days. If anything I’m actually taking this more literally than you are.

    By the way, I was Drake in ‘Here is the number of man.’ I brought up the fact that carbon has 6 electrons, 6 neutrons, and 6 protons and is the building block for life on earth.

  11. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    It seems to me that 2 Peter 3:8 is a continuation of verse 7.

    2Peter 3:7 &8 (NIV) “By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.”

    The day of judgment is the seventh of God’s days and He is explaining that it is not the same as man’s days. If it were that day would have already past.

    2Peter 3:9 (NIV) “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

    The Lord is slow in keeping His promise, if you use man’s time frame: as some understand slowness. To me it has everything to do with how long God’s days are.

    Yes you are looking to men to verify your beliefs. Read your original comment as though someone else wrote it. That person directed me to Ken Ham’s website and what Ken Ham thought and then that person suggested that I study other creation websites that, of course, are written by men. That person said the subject had been rather thoroughly studied, meaning studied by man: someone else’s homework.

    Wouldn’t it have been better to direct me to God’s word, instead of man’s?

    It seems to me that you are claiming God said man’s days, when He spoke of days in Genesis chapter one and Exodus 20:11, but He does not. He could be speaking of man’s days, or He could be speaking of His day’s, which 2 Peter 3:8 makes clear, are not the same as man’s days.

    Can one say that God has entered His rest and yet still works? Hasn’t God promised us a new heaven and a new earth? Can this come about if God has finished His work? Well, you did say God had entered His rest and yet still works!

    You said, “He rested from His creation work on the seventh day. That does not mean that he rested from maintaining His creation and overseeing it. That work continues even unto today.”

    Psa 119:73 (NIV) “Yodh. Your hands made me and formed me; give me understanding to learn your commands.”
    Isa_43:1 (NIV) “But now, this is what the LORD says— he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: “Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine.”
    Isa_43:7 (NIV) “everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made.”
    Isa_44:2 (NIV) “This is what the LORD says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, O Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.”

    It seems to me that God is still creating those who are called by His name. He certainly does look after me, but I did not exist before He formed me in the womb. He created me and He is still busy creating others that will be called by His name.

  12. Don Drake says:

    The creation websites are written by men just as your blog is. Does that mean we should not go to your blog? Ken Ham and the other creationists use Scripture a lot. They are biblical creationists and apologists fulfilling the command in 1 Peter 3:15 to “always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you.” Their primary focus is to defeat Satan’s lie of evolution that is causing many to fall away.

    I still think 2 Peter 3:8 is referring to God’s patience and long suffering.

    You say that God is creating still but there is a difference between creating from nothing as God did during creation week and creating from seeds as He does now. He is not today creating men from dirt or women from ribs. They are created by a method that He invented during creation week. All of nature is created from seeds which were created from nothing or from dirt in creation week. The lives He started create lives today.

    Can you name any place since creation week that God created from nothing or from dirt? The only times that I know of are when Jesus fed the 5,000 and the 4,000 with bread and fish. This demonstrated that He was God because He created these from nothing. But other than that God has rested from creating from nothing. We should be able to distinguish the difference.

    So I can say that God has finished His work of creating from nothing which He did in six 24 hour days. On the seventh day He rested from creating the heavens and the earth. Take a look at Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were FINISHED. And on the seventh day God ENDED His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from ALL HIS WORK WHICH HE HAD DONE. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He RESTED from all His work which God had created and made.” (NKJV)

    I capitalized some words for emphasis because it is pretty clear that God is speaking of His creation work and that He finished it and ended it. Can it be any more clear? On top of that it says that He “sanctified” the seventh day. If, as you say, He hasn’t rested then He hasn’t sanctified any day. And when He says He sanctified the seventh day, I don’t think He is talking about a thousand years. Can you make that seventh day that He sanctified anything other than a 24 hour day?

  13. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    It seems that we have reached an agreement! This blog is written by only a man. Actually, by only a student. I am not anyone’s teacher. I know that God reserves the right to teach men: all men. So, I cannot be your teacher even though I would if I could.

    I try to share a little of the understanding that God has given me. I make no claims of being wise enough to understand spiritual knowledge on my own.

    When someone disagrees with something that I have written, I try to explain it a bit better. However, others sometimes refuse to view what I have written from my point of view. If they persist, it turns into an argument. Then no one is served.

    This is such a situation. You seem to have made Ken Ham a hero in your own mind. To me Ken Ham is attempting to serve two masters. I do not believe that you can understand that, as long as you view any man, except Jesus, as a hero.

    If I wrote a book about my understanding of the Word of God, it would only be a book written by a student: a book about the Book. The genuine article is available to anyone, anyplace where my book would be offered for sale.

    If I wrote a book and sold it, I would be trapped, deceived by Satan, into attempting to serve two masters. The same trap I would be ensnared in if I opened an amusement park, or if I took money for anything related to teaching God’s word. As I said, it is only God that can teach us.

    I see your agenda. I am defacing your hero and you will not stand for it. Why do you have men as heroes?

    This is the Church of Lodicea. I mean all churches of today. Yeast (sin), money, has worked its way all through the Church. All think that it is money that spreads the Word of God: that Satan can be beaten with his own best tool!

    Now, I do not expect you to understand what I just said, because wisdom cannot be passed from one man to another. I say it so that you might ask the Spirit within you if there is any truth in it. If you do so, honestly, searching for truth and not for only what you want to hear, then perhaps you might see as I do. And then perhaps you might even see better than me. That would bring me joy, because that is what I desire. That is why I write these posts.

  14. Don Drake says:

    You are really full of yourself, aren’t you. I don’t see Ken Ham as a hero but as another Christian trying to serve God. For you to accuse him of serving two masters is atrocious. Jesus said, “Judge not that you be not judged,” but you are full of judgment. All churches of today are Laodicea!! Really??

    In your previous comment you asked, “Wouldn’t it have been better to direct me to God’s word, instead of man’s?”

    In my reply to that comment I directed you to God’s word. I quoted Genesis 2:1-3 about the seventh day. Then I asked you how that could be anything other than a 24 hour day. You didn’t even note that in your last comment much less answer it. Instead you went into attack mode.

    I’m beginning to wonder what your agenda is. It is starting to look like you exclude every servant of God living today. What about Billy Graham and his son Franklin Graham? Are they in the church of Laodicea also?

  15. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    First, I did not judge anyone. To judge is to condemn and I did not condemn anyone. I did say I thought Mr. Ham was making a mistake and I still think so.

    Did you judge me? Seems so to me. And you accuse me of an attack mode! Is it wrong for me, but right for you?

    Second, you did direct me to the word of man in your first comment. That was your first bit of advice. You may have later directed me to the Bible, but only to support your first comment.

    I tried to explain how the seven days of Genesis is not man’s days, but you refuse to listen. How many times can you say they are 24-hour days? All I heard are others say it, so I must be wrong!

    You say that you quoted Genesis 2:1-3, and that I did not respond, but I already responded as I quoted Genesis 2:2 and you did not respond to me!

    Here it is again.
    If the days of creation where literal days, then God has already entered His rest. (Gen 2:2 NIV) “By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.” I have to ask myself, ‘Does God rest every Saturday, and then return on Sunday to resume His work’? I see that everything that happens on other days happens on Saturday as well. If God is resting, could this be? Then consider these verses, (Job 34:14 & 15 NIV) “If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, all mankind would perish together and man would return to the dust.”

    I also plainly told you my agenda.

    Here it is again.
    perhaps you might see as I do. And then perhaps you might even see better than me. That would bring me joy, because that is what I desire. That is why I write these posts.

    2Tim 4:1-3 (NIV) In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

  16. Don Drake says:

    This isn’t working. I can’t even begin to think the way you do. You say that God did not rest on the seventh day of creation week, but His Word clearly says He did rest. I have to stick with the Word of God. You even quoted the same verse in the NIV and it doesn’t change. “By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing.” So what was the work He had been doing? It was the work of creating the heavens and the earth and all that is in it including man. So what did He do then? He rested on the seventh day because he did not have to redo that job. As He said “it was very good.” So what do the following weeks since then have to do with creation week?

    I’m sorry, I have to stick with what the Scripture actually says. I don’t have to ask myself about what God does on subsequent days. It would be my thinking if I tried to answer that question.

    And what God said in Genesis 2, he reinforced in Exodus 20:11. I have to believe what He said and I praise God for His clear Word!

  17. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    You are correct. This is not working. Would it surprise you if I knew it would not work and yet I tried to answer you?

    As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another (you know the verse). As it is not possible to sharpen iron with iron, then it is not possible for man to sharpen man. Please do not argue this as I have spent years defending what I say about it and all of those years are on record for anyone to see.

    You seem to disregard that I state clearly that the days are God’s time, not man’s time. If you view the days this way, then the seventh day is yet to come. The world, and all that is in it, is not finished and that means Genesis 2:2 is prophecy and has yet to be fulfilled. This means God has not entered into His rest, and that is supported by John 5:17.

    God’s Word is not clearly stated. The meanings and understanding of His Word are hidden and must be searched out. Jesus plainly told his apostles many things and yet, though they were chosen, they did not understand. If God’s Word were clear, they would have understood immediately.

    If you do not believe me or do not understand then consider Ecclesiastes 10:19 (NIV) “A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes life merry, but money is the answer for everything.” As a Christian, you know that God is the answer for everything, but if you only read and say to yourself, “God’s Word is clear, so money is the answer for everything”, you will not be right and you will miss the understanding of the verse.

    I know by now that I cannot impart my understanding of Scripture to anyone, but I can implant the idea that there might be more to Scripture than is first thought.

    Your question about excluding every servant of God is not very clear to me; however, I will try to answer you.

    God has made everything that has been made. The universe, world, and every man. It is God that gives a man life and all that he possesses. He places a man where He wants him and gives him all of the opportunities that he has. He sustains him with food and clothing. When a man does what he should do, then who should receive the credit?

    If you mean, do I exclude every servant of God of any credit for what they do, my answer is “yes”. And “yes” that includes me.

  18. Don Drake says:

    I see no reason to think that the days of creation were other than 24 hour days. If God did not mean that, He could have presented it in many different ways. Besides that, why did He bless and sanctify the seventh day? If they were all God’s days they would be blessed and sanctified. Is there anything that God does that is not blessed and sanctified? So it makes more sense that God blessed and sanctified the seventh day of a week of 24 hour days as an example for us in the future. And in Exodus 20:11 Moses confirmed that.

    There are things in the Bible that are meant to be poetically interpreted or may be said to emphasize a contrasting truth and there are things that are to be understand as literal truth. It’s not that hard to tell the difference.

  19. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    Well, I believe that you have made it quite clear that you believe the seven days of creation are man’s days. God did present the days in a different way than you believe, but you have closed your eyes to seeing it.

    Look up the meaning of “sanctify” and you will find it means ‘to make holy; set apart as sacred; consecrate. To purify or free from sin.’ If you can see, it is clear that no Saturday on this earth is free from sin. However, the seventh of God’s day will be just as He says, sanctified, free of sin.

    I pointed out the verse that states God is still working and you say He is resting and yet working. That is absurd. Genesis 2:2 says, “By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.” It does not say ‘from some of His work’. He is still creating human beings. No one in this world today existed 120 years ago and new humans are being created as we speak. So, He has not stopped His work of creating either.

    I have been on this earth for over seventy four years now and there is one thing about belief that I am certain of. People believe what they want to believe. No amount of logic will change their minds, if they do not want to change.

    You do not want to believe the seven days of Genesis are God’s days and a different period than man’s days.

    Be careful that you do not surround yourself with teachers that say what itching ears want to hear. That would be, ‘how great men are’.

    The one who thinks that any man is great, whether himself or another man, has forgotten why we need a Savior.

    You say, “It’s not that hard to tell the difference”, but you cannot tell the difference between the length of a day of God and a day of man! It seems as if it is hard for you.

    I write these posts because I see things that others do not and I would like them too. Then I defend what I say to others, that do not see as I do. My agenda is clear.

    When someone does not see as I do and they comment and I answer the comment and they still do not understand, I have to wonder why they keep commenting! How does it affect anyone, if I am wrong? Whether I am right or wrong others see the subject in a different way. That is not to say one should stop commenting, but their view should come from the Bible and not from man.

    As for our difference, the Bible does not say the days in Genesis are man’s 24-hour days. That is what men say. It is clear that one cannot reconcile Genesis 2:2&3 with John 5:17 if the standard is a day of man.

    Man’s seventh day, Saturday, comes every week and none of them are, or ever have been sanctified: fee of sin. Therefore, Genesis 2:3 cannot be reconciled if the days in Genesis are man’s 24 hour days. Man was created in the sixth day and sin began on the sixth day. There has never been a day without sin: not yet. Therefore, there has never been a seventh day as spoken of in Genesis 2:3: a day without sin. To repeat your own words, “If they were all God’s days they would be blessed and sanctified”. They are not God’s days, they are man’s days: 24-hour days. They are different.

    You say, “If, as you say, He hasn’t rested then He hasn’t sanctified any day. And when He says He sanctified the seventh day, I don’t think He is talking about a thousand years. Can you make that seventh day that He sanctified anything other than a 24 hour day?” IT HAS TO BE. NO DAY YET, HAS BEEN WITHOUT SIN. THEREFORE, NO DAY HAS BEEN SANCTIFIED.

  20. Don Drake says:

    Your reasoning baffles me. I don’t understand why you cannot take the straightforward words of the Bible and believe them. Let me try again.

    You say that the seventh day has not yet arrived, so we must still be in the sixth day. Right? The Bible says in Genesis 1:31, “Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed is was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” (NKJV).

    So everything on the sixth day is “very good”, not just good but “very good.” With your interpretation that must mean that all the death, destruction and sin that is happening here in this sixth day is seen by God as “very good.” Really?

    You are right when you say, “People believe what they want to believe. No amount of logic will change their minds, if they do not want to change.” I certainly do agree with that.

    God bless you! I will wait to see how you account for death, sin and destruction in the present “day” which you call “God’s day” as being “very good.” The Bible says everything up through the sixth day is “very good.” You can’t deny that.

  21. Don Drake says:

    I don’t call them “man’s days” by the way. God created the 24 hour cycle of days, so I would say He owns them.

  22. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    You cannot convince me that the days in Genesis are 24-hour days, because that is what I also thought. I realized that there are too many verses that do not agree with that idea. They cannot be reconciled by 24-hour days. So far, anything that you have said I already thought about and tried to fit into my understanding, but they would not fit.

    Every thing was good in the “beginning” of the sixth day, but then sin entered. Fortunately, I do not have to account for all for the sin in the world today.

    Don’t you see that in order to defend your interpretation, you are making claims that the Bible does not make? The Bible does not say, “everything up through the sixth day is “very good.” “. He said it “was” very good (past tense): it changed.

    So, yes I deny it, because I did not say it and neither did God.

  23. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    You know, or should know, that I was using the term “man’s days” to differentiate between the time frame of God’s days and 24-hour days.

  24. Don Drake says:

    This may be my last attempt at getting some logic from you. Again I refer to Genesis 1:31 which ends with, “So the evening and morning were (past tense) the sixth day.” So when did it end? When did it start? You referred to the past tense when God said it was very good and then, you say, things changed. So here is a past tense saying the evening and the morning finished and were (past tense) the sixth day. In fact each day ends with “were the nth day.” Past tense all the way through the six days.

    Please explain that without “making claims that the Bible does not make.”

  25. Don Drake says:

    The more I think about it the more untenable I find your position to be. It is so strange that you would use the word “was” against my argument because it is a past tense while ignoring all the times the word “were” is used in the first chapter of Genesis indicating everything in that chapter is past. God could have said, “So the evening and the morning IS the sixth day” if we are still in it, but that doesn’t make sense. So He said the truth; He said they WERE the sixth day–gone, never to return.

    You said, “I write these posts because I see things that others do not and I would like them too. Then I defend what I say to others, that do not see as I do.” Perhaps you should take another look.

  26. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    I will try to explain, but more for those who might be following this line of comments. You came to teach me, not to learn with me.

    When I first read Genesis 1:1-5, I thought the heavens, earth, light, day, and night were made on the first day. However, now I see that all of these things were made before the first day.

    The heavens and the earth were made before God made light, so there would not have been a morning before they were made, only an evening after they were made. That means everything after the statement ‘And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day’ was what was accomplished on the first day: the sky was made on the first day.

    If you follow the reasoning, that what is described as being done, is done after the statement, you can see that man was made on the fifth day; not the sixth day.

    The events that are described after ‘And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day’ is a history of man and it has not ended.

    Can you see that the phrase ‘And there was evening, and there was morning—the seventh day’ is not said? That is because the evening of the sixth day has not come. Genesis 2:2&3 is a prophecy of the future and is yet to happen.

    Don, I do not need another teacher. I have been given the Holy Spirit to teach me all things, just as you have: if you have been baptized into the Holy Spirit. Consider what I have said and then listen to the Spirit. You are not the teacher and neither am I.

    I have tried to answer you as best as I can. To learn one must, at least, suspect they have something to learn. I started with the same idea of the six days as you have now. But I did not believe I understood completely. I still do not understand completely, but to accept the premise of the six days as 24-hour days would be a step backward, not forward.

    I do not believe that I can say anything more that would convince you to reconsider your views, so we are both just wasting our time.

  27. Don Drake says:

    Your reasoning is so convoluted I find it almost impossible to follow.
    Light is not required to decide morning or evening. Let me make it simple. Pick a point on earth. When that point starts to move it is morning. When it moves half way around opposite of where it started, it is evening. Another half turn and it is morning again. So the evening going to morning completes one day. When the light shines on earth it is daytime; when it does not shine on earth it is nighttime. Plain and simple; all based on one rotation of the earth.

    One thing that we do not know is the speed of that rotation during creation week. We divide the rotation into 24 segments of time and call each one an hour. The earth could rotate faster or slower and we would still separate it into 24 segments and call them hours. So, to me, a day remains what God God originally made it, one rotation of the earth.

    I can’t believe that God was deceptive in His description of the creation. I have to believe that Scripture means what Scripture says. That’s what the Holy Spirit has taught me. There is no reason to twist it to fit a man’s way of thinking and so I will not. There are those in the Church who are trying to twist it to fit Darwinian evolution. That’s what happens when you start twisting Scripture.

  28. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    I told you that you would not understand. I don’t know why you are saying it back to me, just in a different form, as if it is my fault that you don’t understand!

    Your explanation about days and nights is correct. What was that all about? Even a grade school student knows that! I repeated the phrase ‘And there was evening, and there was morning’, because that is how God phrased it. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Him.

    To hide something is not deception. It is apparent to me that God hid the meaning of the seven days. Proverbs 25:2 (NIV) “It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.” Notice what He said about wisdom. Proverbs 2:4&5 (NIV) “and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.” Scripture does always mean what it says, but sometimes the meaning is hidden: search out all things for the glory of a king.

    As for those in the church, trying to interpret Scripture to fit Darwinian evolution it only shows a lack of understanding of Scripture. Genesis 1:21 (NIV) “So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.” Genesis 1:25 (NIV) “God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.” Those verses rule out evolution. Evolution claims creatures were different before what they are now, not created according to their kinds. Evolution might claim a horse was once a frog! But Scripture states a horse was made according to its kind, a horse, and a frog was made according to its kind, a frog. However, teaching them that is as difficult as teaching anyone understanding. As iron sharpens iron.

  29. Don Drake says:

    I don’t think anything is hidden in Genesis 1. I’m sorry you don’t understand that.

    You are right though. It is not your fault that I don’t understand. And it is not my fault that you don’t understand.

    God bless!

  30. astudent says:

    Don Drake,

    Of course, I understand that you do not “think” anything is hidden in Genesis 1. You have nothing to be sorry for.

    As I said, “I started with the same idea of the six days as you have now.” Therefore, I do understand your view.

    I would not hold anyone responsible for fault. It really doesn’t matter, to me, who is at fault for anything.

    It would not be right for me to blame someone for expressing their views, and that is all that you did.

    May God bless you even more than He blesses me: if that is possible.

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