A CHRISTMAS PRESENT FROM OUR FATHER

This is truly a revelation. I have not heard anyone, who claimed to believe in God, or understand Scripture, say what I am about to say.

I did not rush to tell what God has revealed to me, because of Matthew 7:6. However, I feel that I must weigh that verse against the second Royal Law, which is do to others as you want them to do to you. Because I would want someone, anyone, to tell me what I am about to tell you, I must tell you.

Everyone wrestles with the concept of the trinity, just as I did, and there are many explanations from men. All of which make no sense. First we are told that there is only one God and then we are told there are really three! Then we are told that we cannot understand God, whereupon the writer attempts to explain what he claims we, and by default he, cannot understand!

Well, the truth is we can understand God. We are told that the Holy Spirit is sent to us to teach us all things (John 14:26 & 1 John 2:27). If you have been baptized into the name of Jesus Christ, you have the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). If you have the perfect teacher and can be taught all things, then you can be taught to know and understand God. Don’t believe man, believe God. I am just repeating Scripture (1 John 2:27).

I am not the teacher. I have been listening to the Spirit for quite a while now. I do not listen to men for the answers; only the questions. So, as I am always giving advice, even when I am not asked for it, listen to my question and ask the Spirit if my answer is true. Remember that I am only a student, so, in the spirit and words of Elihu, “Let us discern for ourselves what is right; let us learn together what is good.” (Job 34:4 NIV)

The question is, “Who was God speaking of in Matthew 3:17?” There were two that He could have been speaking of, Jesus or the Spirit! I know your first answer, as it was always my answer. However, if God was really saying that the Holy Spirit is His son, and you study His Word from that point of view, all things become clear.

Doesn’t it make more sense to see the Holy Spirit as the one and only Son of God?

All wisdom comes from the Teacher, who is called the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is called wisdom in Proverbs and chapter eight states that wisdom was born (NIV), brought forth (KJV), before anything. The wisdom spoken of is not just an attribute, but a being. That makes Genesis 1:2 clear. God is saying that His Son was already with Him.

Reading the first chapter of John, with the idea that the Holy Spirit is the Son of God, makes every verse of that chapter clear. The Spirit, Son of God, is called the Word in that chapter.

It even makes the sacrifice for the sins of Israel clear! In Leviticus chapter sixteen the goat that was slain represents the son of man (Jesus) and the scapegoat represents the Son of God (Christ). (Lev 16:10 NIV) “But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD to be used for making atonement by sending it into the desert as a scapegoat.” The world is the desert and the Holy Spirit is in the world: He is here, in you and me.

I welcome any comment, question, or accusation that you might have, as all question lead to a better understanding.

My goal is to be a good student, not a good teacher; or even a teacher at all. I hope that is also your goal. It is the glory of the Holy Spirit to teach all things and I am not going to attempt to usurp His glory, by attempting to teach. (Mat 23:8-10)

16 Responses to A CHRISTMAS PRESENT FROM OUR FATHER

  1. Liferestored says:

    Merry Christmas my brother. I have a question after reading your post- are you suggesting the Holy Spirit and Jesus are the same? This would make some sence due to the Holy Spirit desending on Mary to impregnate her with the Christ. Thus also fulfilling scripture of Christ being the Fathers only begotten son. (Maybe because in essence Jesus was the Spirit in flesh)? I’m not sure if this is what your saying or not. But if it is I can see the possibilities. In any case, I love wrestling with these things. Thank you

  2. astudent says:

    liferestored,

    Yep, that’s how I see it.

    All of the Questions that were strange to me are no longer strange.

    Read Proverbs chapter 8 and John chapter 1 applying that interpretation and ask the Spirit that lives in you to make it clear. And I am certain that He will.

    Actually, what Christmas present could be greater than to be given the Son of God to teach us all things?

    I know that you are a good student. Honest and true. Therefore, try to find someplace in Scripture where this concept does not fit, so we can discern for ourselves what is right and so we can learn together.

    Jacob wrestled with the Lord and was blessed because he did so: as we are also.

    “O”, I almost forgot, Merry Christmas to you as well.

  3. astudent says:

    liferestord,

    I was/am in a hurry to hit the road for a Christmas trip and I spoke too quickly.

    I do not believe Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same. Jesus is the son of man: the son of David. I believe that he was lead by the Son of God. That he allowed himself to only say what the Son of God wanted him to say and did only what the Son of God wanted him to do. Therefore, it seems that the two are one physically, but they not the same being. They would be one spiritually.

    Marriage is a situation where two are one in spirit, but they are separate beings. I believe the Holy Spirit is one with me, but we are certainly not the same being, as I am only a sinner.

    I must go now, so, again merry Christmas.

  4. Liferestored says:

    A student,

    Thank you. I will do with your suggested scripture. I all ready am very intrigued and see the wisdom of Spirit. Thank you. Have a great Christmas brother.

  5. Hi astudent,

    What you are suggesting is certainly thought provoking although it will take some study to comment appropriately.

    Christmas? From something you had mentioned, I had the impression that you did not follow holidays. I was obviously wrong.

  6. astudent says:

    creationwitness,

    Well, you are not totally wrong, as I do not celebrate the 4th of July.

    As I have said many times, if you apply Romans 13:1&2 to the beginning of the United States, you can see that this Country was founded in rebellion to God. I will not celebrate rebellion.

    It is difficult to not follow holidays, as almost everyone else does. I do not disagree with celebrating Christmas; however, I do disagree with many of the ways it is celebrated.

    I suppose that makes me sound judgmental, but we are suppose to be judgmental about some things.

  7. astudent says:

    liferestord,

    Well, if you have any doubts as to, if I think I know and therefore am teaching, this should erase that concept.

    I am still learning and therefore must change my last answer.

    We are clearly told that the Holy Spirit and Jesus are/is the same being.

    (John 1:14 NIV) The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    I thought that if God gave life to someone it was his permanently: and I still do. This led me to think that Jesus was born a man and his identity would always be: that God would not take or replace his identity with someone else’s.

    It seemed to me that Jesus was not the Holy Spirit, because the Spirit descended on him. I was applying the power of man to this situation; not the power of God.

    I am a man and a man cannot be in two places at once, God has not granted that power to man. However, the Holy Spirit/Jesus was given all power (John 13:3) and so he could be Jesus and still be everywhere. Jesus was not born and then made the son of God, but was, from the time of birth, always the Holy Spirit.

    Applying the power of God to Luke 3:22, I can reconcile the two concepts.

    I understand that the Holy Spirit dwells in all believers at the same time, so I have no problem with believing the Spirit to be Jesus and yet come from Heaven at the same time.

    Well, I can now, until I lean more.

    Yes, I am laughing at myself.

  8. munyingnying says:

    Hello student,

    With regard to the Trinity, I try to make it simple for myself as it could really give me a headache:

    God is One
    1. God is One, in three persons (the Father; Jesus – the Word/Creator as he was introduced in the gospel of John; and the Holy Spirit). I’ve always imagined God “talking to himself” when he said, “Let us make man in our image,” or “Let us confuse their language”.
    2. In John 14:19-20, Jesus told Philip that seeing Jesus is seeing the Father, and that Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus.
    3. I assume the “Spirit of Jesus” (Acts 16:7, Philippians 1:19) is the Holy Spirit, the Advocate whom the Father sent in Jesus name. In Matthew 28:20 Jesus said he will be with us ‘til the end of the age. Jesus is no longer on this earth in bodily form, but his [Holy] Spirit is with us.

    God is Spirit
    4. God is Spirit (John 4:24). Only two thousand years ago, the person of Jesus took the form of man, and the first to experience the glorified body. I believe this is what makes him the Son of Man (the new Adam who would not sin). The Father was speaking to Jesus as he came out of the water—pleased with him for his obedience—to eventually sacrifice himself on the cross. Christ agonised over this impending terror of physical death at Gethsemane. But Jesus is also Son of God—long before he took the form of man. Even the spirits that he drove away recognised and addressed him as such.

    Responding to you helped me articulate my own beliefs—thank you for your thought-provoking post! I hope I made sense. Either way, I hope the Spirit reveals to you the truth. You are seeking, thus you shall find.

    Your fellow student

  9. astudent says:

    munyingnying,

    Thinking about Scripture use to give me a headache until I realized that I did not need to understand the part of it, that I was trying so hard too, at that time. It seems that is not what the Teacher wanted to teach me at that point in time. I have found that if I take a deep breath and just think about what is said, instead of trying to force myself to understand, sometimes I learn something altogether different from what I was trying to reconcile. There is always time to learn and always more to learn as well.

    1. Can anyone really say “God is one” and then say “in three persons”? If I think about that statement, like an algebraic statement, it is not true. That is to say “1God = 3 persons”. Using algebra one side of the equation must equal the other and, if it is true, it can be turned around and said the other way, which would be “3 persons = 1God” and it cannot and remain a true statement. That is to say if the statement means there is only one God.

    I do not think the verse means there is only one God. We would have to take Psalms 82:6 and John 10:34 out of the Bible if it meant there was only one god. It least I see no way to reconcile these verses, using that approach.

    I looked up the word “person” as I am trying to explain what I see and it means one. The only definition that means something other is the seventh given and it does not agree with the basic meaning of the word, which is one being.

    7. Theology. The separate individualities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as distinguished from the essence of the Godhead that unites them (American Heritage Dictionary). It is double talk! By the way, I absolutely hate the word godhead. My God is my Father, not some impersonal being, such as a Godhead. I know that the word is used in the KJV, but not in the NIV and not by me.

    It seems that we all talk to ourselves from time to time, but tell me, have you ever used the word us, or we, when you have been talking to yourself? I have not. I always refer to myself as “I” and when I am taking the other side of the argument I use the word “you”. I never refer to myself as “us” or “we”. I don’t think God would either, but perhaps He would.

    2. I do not understand how John 14:19&20 would reconcile the idea that God is one. It is saying that we all are one. It is clear to me that I am not you and you are not me, as we are individuals. The Holy Spirit is an individual and so am I, but He has become a part of me and is in me forever (John 14:16&17).

    3. This I agree with, except you seem to separate Jesus from the Holy Spirit. John says very clearly in 1:14 The Word “became” flesh and made his dwelling among us. That says to me that the Holy Spirit became Jesus. You say the same thing with your forth point.

    As I thought about what you said, it also helped me understand better. I realized that God, our Father, is the only one that it can be said is one.

    We are gods, as Scripture says, but we are two, not one. We are gods, because the Spirit of God lives in us and therefore we are two; that have become one. However, God is and has always been one.

    This seems hard to understand, because we are viewing it from different angles. And I change the angle from which I am speaking, even as I speak.

    Suppose there is a stop sign standing in the middle of a small island. There is a moat around the island, filled with piranha, so that no one can cross to the island. We are at the edge of the moat and are trying to see the sign clearly. We call and tell each other what we see, but because we stand in different places, we do not see the sign the same. If one stands facing the sign it clearly says “Stop”, but if one stands on the other side it says nothing. Both views are absolutely correct and yet, if viewed from only one angle, one seems wrong. The key to understanding the sign completely is to view it from all angles. The one who looks at the edge of the sign sees that there is really only a small line that separates the differences of the front and back view.

    You see, there is really only a small difference between our understanding of Scripture.

  10. JCServant says:

    Very interesting! I stumbled on your blog, and chuckled at the subtitle mentioning things you cannot say in church. Then, I read this. Yeah…to even question the trinity concept too hard, in most churches, can get you labeled as a heretic.

    In fact, it was one pastor who did just that, here in Salt Lake City, that caused a firestorm among the Christian leaders here, and some rather embarrassing moments on TV. It has lead to me taking my personal blog in a new direction and launching a Youtube Series which will cover, among other topics, the God given, Bible protected right to have different thoughts about major theologies without being castrated.

    If you would like, I would love to chat over skype sometime… or phone. Hit me up via email, jcservant at cyberlightcomics dot com if you’re interested. You can head over to my blog jcservant.wordpress.com to read more of my own journey. Regardless, may God bless you!

  11. astudent says:

    JCServant,

    I checked your blog and I am impressed. I really like your enthusiasm and your desire to help others.

    God has given you the talent to speak, but He has not given it to me. I must think about what I say and to speak with someone does not give me time to think and I make many mistakes. We would disagree on doctrine and I would not be as clear as you would be and it might lead to problems that would separate us.

    You see, I never agree to disagree. It might be a fault, or it might be a strength. It all depends on how you view it. If I am right, then I cannot, and should not change. The problem with that view is I am not always right and if we “agree to disagree” then I will not realize that I am wrong. Therefore, I beat to death my point of view, but at the same time, I try to see the other side of the question. If we can both keep pride out of the argument (argument – a process of reasoning) then we can learn, but it is difficult to do.

    I do not communicate privately, because I try very hard not to be a teacher. Those who have not yet turned to Christ need a teacher, but those who have, are given the Holy Spirit to teach them all things. I write my understanding to those who have already turned to Jesus, so they will think about God and His Word. I am not the Teacher, I am only a student. Therefore, I try not to teach, only to air my understanding.

    We live at the end of time. If one considers the Churches in Revelation as Churches in time, instead of Churches in places, it becomes clear that we are the church of Laodicea, lukewarm, because we do not study the Word of God for ourselves.

    My goal is to goad everyone into studying for themselves and not to take my word for anything.

    As for the problem with established churches, it seems to stem from not following the guidelines that are given in 1 Corinthians 14:26, 29, 30, &31. Only the preacher speaks in our modern church. No man understands completely so the congregation is lead astray. That is not to say that the preacher tries to lead anyone astray, but that is the result.

    Anyway, I think that you have the right idea and I am overjoyed that you are trying to wake others up. It is encouraging when I see others thinking and trying to get others to think.

    Keep on, keeping on and do not let anyone discourage you. Yes, some will try.

  12. JCServant says:

    Thank you for your reply and kind words. A few things, my friend.

    First, I believe you must learn the ability to ‘agree to disagree,’ and speak, even if you make mistakes. The reality is that God is God, and we are not. We can only see a part of the picture He is painting. So, it is rare (if not outright impossible) that you will ever completely agree with any one person on every finer point of theology. My wife and I, both Christians of similar faith and maturing have differed on various matters more times than I can count.

    True fellowship and unity only comes when we embrace this diversity. We must agree on the gospel… we are sinners, Jesus, God incarnate, died on the cross for our sins. We calls us to repent and believe in him for salvation from the penalty we deserve.

    However, matters of doctrine are another matter. We must understand that fact that we will be wrong about God. We are trying to explain things like God’s sovereignty, His Ways and His Nature with limited human words and understanding. Praise God, then, that our salvation is not dependent on a perfect understanding of Him. Far from it! God loved us while we were still sinners, God loves us in our ignorance, and God will love us as we stumble, fall, and misunderstand…. as long as we have faith in Him. Remember what Paul said about Abraham… it was his faith that was counted as righteousness, not his good works, or even his ‘perfect’ understanding of God and God’s ways (for he most certainly had neither).

    You may try very hard to not be a teacher, but you are, my friend. most believers are in some capacity. You teach here on your blog. You teach those around you by the way you live. You may refrain from speaking directly to too many for fear of ‘teaching,’ but I imagine you must speak to some. The manner you interact with others around you teaches them love, from Christ, or fear/hate/anger/etc. Be not afraid. Take your concerns to Him. Be not afraid to make mistake. He is faithful, and just. He will catch you when you fall.

    And, it’s in the Bible 🙂 We are to teach one another, Proverbs 27 says, “Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.”

    It is ironic that you mentioned 1 Cor 14. Some time ago, I argued from the position that the challenge with ‘church’ was that we failed to follow the ‘model’ laid out in the New Testament. 1 Cor 14 was one of my proof texts. I have sense learned that the NT, and the epistles in particular, was never meant to be a point by point guideline in exactly how to run church. Rather, it was Paul, demonstrating the love of Christ, in dealing with the challenges and culture of that time… across the board. Jesus gives us all of the commandments to follow in the gospels. “Love the Lord you God” and “love one another.” As for the others laws, Jesus makes it very clear that they are subordinate to these two. Unfortunately, I see people take Bible passages all of the time, even ones that were never considered ‘laws,’ use them to make laws that they try to hold others accountable to. Even worse, they may ostracize members for non-adherence. 😦

    If you continue to follow my blog and/or youtube channel, I’m in the middle of a series now discussing these truths, and the freedom that comes from Christ’s finished work on the cross. I will dive into these topics in more detail. I hope to hear more from you in the future! God bless you.

  13. astudent says:

    JCServant,

    Well, we are not friends, we are brothers, and if you have a brother then you know that brothers seldom get along. They usually love each other, but they disagree much of the time.

    Fellowship and unity are not my main goals. I believe they are the result of following the guidelines that our Father has laid out for us. My main goal is to know (understand) everything about our Father, everything else is second in importance. For me to embrace the idea that we should agree to disagree would be to say it is good that one of us does not understand some part of Scripture. Why would I think that? If I am wrong, and it happens more than I want it too, then it would be good for me to change and if someone else is wrong, the same should apply. I know that you mean well, but I will not change (agree to disagree).

    We agree on the basics, that we are sinners, must have a Savior and Jesus is that Savior, that our salvation is not dependent on perfect understanding of Scripture. However, when the view that it is OK to agree to disagree is taken it can lead to a lazy approach for gaining understanding. After all, we cannot know everything so why try? It is not important.

    I said that I am not a teacher and you called me one! These are not my words, but the Words of God! (Mat 23:10 NIV) Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ. I see that you have not yet reached the same understanding as I have, but until then just do what God says and call no one teacher: especially me.

    I find it hilarious that you cite Proverbs 27:17! It says just the opposite that you think it does. I spent seven years trying to teach the meaning of that verse and did not manage to teach it to a single person! If you doubt me, and you should always doubt me, then Google “iron sharpens iron astudent” If you have a lot of time, read all of the comments, but if you do not, make sure you read the last one. If Proverbs 27:17 means we can sharpen each other, then Matthew 23:10 is certainly an odd statement.

    Our Father has hidden the meaning of much of Scripture and what seems clear is not always so. If you believe Scripture is always clear then consider (Eccl 10:19 NIV) “A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes life merry, but money is the answer for everything.”

    I am pretty sure there is a voice in your mind that is almost screaming, “God is the answer for everything” and yet the verse says money! There is an answer, a way of viewing the verse, that makes sense, but our Father has reserved the right to teach His Word, so I will not try.

    That is one of the basic principles of the modern Church. We believe a man should teach Scripture! I wonder how God feels when He has given every one of us the perfect teacher and we turn to a mere man, a preacher, for understanding.

    You gave me advice, when I did not ask for it, and I know that you meant well. So, I will return the favor and give you advice that you did not ask for. Study the Word and understand it before you attempt to teach it.

    You say, “Unfortunately, I see people take Bible passages all of the time, even ones that were never considered ‘laws,’ use them to make laws that they try to hold others accountable to. Even worse, they may ostracize members for non-adherence.” I hope you do not mean me: I hold no one accountable.

    I see only two laws that all of God’s law comes from. If I did not understand something and was doing something that was wrong, in God’s eyes, I would want to be told. “Do to others as you would have them do to you”. Just because I am forgiven of my trespasses does not mean that I should trespass. I am free, but I do not want to do anything that my God would not like, so it is a blessing when others tell me that they think I am wrong: even if it is done out of hate, instead of love. Maybe they are right and I should consider that they just might be. I do, I always do, and I am grateful for the thought.

    I hope you do not hate me, because I disagree with you. I meant it when I said I am impressed with your enthusiasm and your desire to help others and I am encouraged by you.

    I also hope I am not discouraging you. If we can both admit we do not know everything, and I admit that I do not, then we should be able to get along, without agreeing to disagree.

  14. JCServant says:

    Thanks for replying 🙂 I think when comment sections/emails/etc get terribly long, governing multiple points each, it goes beyond the scope the medium efficiently addresses. So, forgive me for picking a few points and just addressing those. If you wish for me to address something else specifically, I will.

    Of course, I do not hate you, or ostracize you for having different opinions or viewpoints on God’s Word than I. After all, I would act pretty hypocritical to do so after what I said earlier 🙂

    I still hold that “Iron Sharpens Iron” means that we teach and learn from one another. Without going into the search you mention, I interpret scripture in light of scripture. The New Testament is filled with instruction on how the body teaches the body by the spirit. One of the most oft forgotten areas is 1 Cor 14, 2nd half, where Paul tells us that if God has laid a word on someone’s heart, we should stop and let that person speak. Instead, we put one person in charge of ‘preaching,’ never to be interrupted.

    Regardless, we all teach, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, through various means as I pointed out to earlier.

    You write, “I hope you do not hate me, because I disagree with you…. I also hope I am not discouraging you. If we can both admit we do not know everything, and I admit that I do not, then we should be able to get along, without agreeing to disagree.” This is an oxymoron…or a statement that contradicts with itself. You say that we disagree. You have just agreed that we disagree on something 🙂

    The term ‘agree to disagree’ simply means that. We agree that we do not see eye to eye on a subject. It does not imply that we agree that the others’ viewpoint is correct, especially for us. I have a brother who thinks it is good to baptize infants. I believe that misses the entire point of baptism. We discuss it, with neither giving in to the other’s viewpoint. We agree that we disagree on the subject. We still love each other as brothers, though neither of us has changed his mind.

    Now, in such a situation, even though my brother does not see my point, which I back up by Biblical support, I do believe he acts out of faith because he says so. He, too, backs his position by Biblical support, and in most other ways demonstrates love and passion for God. 1 Cor 8 covers these matters, showing that we should not pressure our brother to do something outside of his or her faith is sin. You see this in Romans 14, as well.

    So, when I ‘agree to disagree’ with my brother, I simply mean that I support him to follow God in the way his faith dictates, even if I see it as weak, in error, etc. And I do not change my mind on the matter, itself. I agree to disagree. I agree not to press the point so as to not pressure him to violate his faith and cause him to sin.

  15. astudent says:

    JCServant,

    It did not surprise me that you still believe “Iron Sharpens Iron” means that we can teach each other.

    I kind of agree that the New Testament is filled with instruction on how the body teaches the body by the spirit. It is not the body that teaches, but it is the Spirit that does so. That is a big difference. The body can and should raise all kinds of questions, so it would be right to do what Scripture recommends (1 Cor 14:26).

    The problem, as I see it, is that we begin to think that we are the teacher. What I mean is we begin to understand, and of course we want others to understand also, so we attempt to tell others what we see. Some of them, after thinking it over, agree, Up to that point everything is fine, but then those who agreed begin to think that the one that aired his, or her view have a special gift to teach. In other words they view the preacher as a teacher, when it is the Spirit, that resides in their mind that taught. The person that prophesied only raised a question; it was the Spirit that answered.

    What seems, at first, a small difference leads to a great difference. God Gave us the Holy Spirit to teach us all things (John 14:26) and the Spirit should get the credit (Glory) for doing so, but the way things are now a mere man takes the glory. Does anyone believe that would be right?

    So, if you call a man a teacher you reinforce the concept that it is right to do so and the concept of who really teaches is lost. (Mat 23:10 NIV) “Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ.” It has lead to the modern Church, where one man is viewed as a better Christian than others, because he understands more than others (or thinks he does (1 Cor 8:2)). A preacher that should not be pointed out as wrong about anything!

    The term “agree to disagree” is an oxymoron. A senseless phrase that is used by someone that no longer wants to discuss a matter. It takes two to agree and if one does not then there can be no agreement. Therefore, “we” cannot agree to disagree.

    You did not consider my post about Proverbs 27:17. You have no skin in that game. I, on the other hand, spent seven years commenting, explaining, and testing my understanding. That is not to say that you should say anything to me about iron sharpening iron, as I will not answer. Seven years has been enough time for me to admit that God is right.

    You do not want to believe that iron cannot sharpen iron, so, to use your oxymoron, you agree to disagree, and spend no more time thinking about it.

    I certainly agree with your concept of baptism. Baptism must be accepted by the individual, not something that is done to them without their knowledge. You brother does indeed miss the whole point of baptism. Everyone that is baptized must admit that they are a sinner and in need of a Savior. A baby has no idea that they are a sinner and therefore cannot admit it.

    By the way, I do not believe that God would condemn a baby, because that would not be fair and just. That is to condemn anyone that did not even know they were a sinner. He did not condemn Adam and Eve before they knew. Our Father is always fair and just, but for those who turn to Him, He is also merciful.

    I believe that true pressure comes from within, not from some other individual. We become so sensitive of not hurting someone else’s pride that we stop airing our views. I only echo Elihu’s words

    (Job 32:17 NIV) I too will have my say; I too will tell what I know.
    18 For I am full of words, and the spirit within me compels me;
    19 inside I am like bottled-up wine, like new wineskins ready to burst.
    20 I must speak and find relief; I must open my lips and reply.
    21 I will show partiality to no one, nor will I flatter any man;
    22 for if I were skilled in flattery, my Maker would soon take me away.

    Itching ears want flattery and I neither give, or accept it. That makes me sound harsh, but the result of flattery is that God would soon take me away, which would be a good thing for me, but then who would take my place?

    I pass no judgment (condemnation) on anyone. However, God’s word is supreme to man’s and it should be understood as well as read.

    If I do not post my understanding and I am right about some point then who will? And if I just refuse to air my understanding (view), because I might offend others, who have not thought such thoughts, they are not challenged.

    You see, no one is forced to read my blog. If they decide to stop thinking about some point, they are free to hold their tongue. As for me, I am not free to hold my tongue. I must comment until either I learn something that I did not see before, or the other person learns, or even better, we both learn. I am committed to freely commenting on the Word of God and would be violating my principals if I were to “agree to disagree”, even if it were possible.

    If anyone thinks that I am going too far and pressing any point, all they have to do is stop reading what I write. I hope no one does, but it really is just that simple.

  16. JCServant says:

    There’s a reason that I stand by the thought that “iron sharpens Iron” and that we teach another. I do not take this verse in isolation and run with it. There are plenty of other verse that support the thought.

    Of course, you are right, it is the spirit that teaches all truth. However, the Spirit teaches through various means. Our conscious (Rom 2.15), God’s Word (The Bible – 2 Tim 3.16), through preaching (Mark 16.15, Rom 10.14), through nature/creation (Rom 1.20) and through teachers (Rom 12.7, Eph 4.11). In 1 Cor 14, Paul points out that as one is prophesying, all should contemplate what is said. If another received a revelation, he should stop the first one and share it.

    You can call that the “Spirit” or “the person teaching/prophesying.” I call it “The spirit teaching through the person.” Regardless, God clearly uses the weak, foolish things of this world (1 Cor 1.27) to demonstrate his wisdom, power and glory…through His Spirit.

    As far as agree to disagree, I refer you to Romans 14. The first verse states, “Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.” That’s a good way of saying “Let’s agree to disagree.” In other words, exactly as you imply above, let the matter drop, rather than pursue never ending arguments that may, ultimately, damage a weaker brother’s faith, or push him to sin. For, even if an action is not a sin for you, through your careful study of the Word, if your weaker brother acts outside of faith, it is a sin for him.

    This is why I agree to disagree at times. It is better to allow a disputable matter slide, than to fall into debates, and arguments over most matter. The heart of the matter is the gospel message. Theological matters outside of that, while important, take a back seat to insuring that peace and love remain between my brethren and I.

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