DOES GOD KNOW EVERYTHING?

Well, if you read much of what I write you already know that I am not going to take the conventional view of that question. It seems to me to be a waste of time to just repeat the views of others. That is not to say the views of others are not correct, but sometimes, viewing a question from a different angle, we can gain understanding. There is no gain from always studying scripture and expecting the same outcome.

The Bible states that there is nothing impossible for God (Mat 19:26, Mark 10:27, and Luke 1:37) and then says it is impossible for God to lie! (Heb 6:18) So, which is correct? Can God lie, or can He not lie?

As I understand, everything is possible for God, but if He lied He would cease to be God. (Psa 31:5 and Isa 65:16) If He lied then He could not be the God of truth.

Because I believe there is nothing impossible with God and there are verses that indicate God did not know before hand the outcome of some act, then it only seems logical that He hid the outcome from Himself.

It would not be consistent with the belief that nothing is impossible with God and then say He cannot hide something from Himself.

So, I do not believe God knows everything before it happens, and I will attempt to explain that belief, as I believe Scripture indicates this concept.

I believe, as I have said in a previous post, that we are here to be tested. I think it is a real test and being a real test the outcome cannot be known. If the result of the test is known it would not be a test, only an account. It would be history, before it happened!

If you can accept this concept, then you can understand some of Scripture that indicates that God did not know what man would do, even though He could have looked into the future and would have seen it.

God hates sin and therefore, I believe He does not look at it. After sin has been committed it cannot be hidden, it is there for all to see, and it can no longer be hidden from anyone.

God asked Adam and Eve if they had eaten from the tree that He commanded them not to eat from. He did not say that He knew they would eat from the tree. He even asked them if someone had told them that they were naked. If He had looked at their sin beforehand He would not have asked these questions.

Then, before the great flood, mankind grieved God with all of their sin and it filled His heart with pain. If God knew that man would become so wicked would it have filled His heart with pain? Would God have hurt Himself for no reason?

One might say that the time before the great flood was a failed experiment, but it was not God that failed, but man failed. If God had known the outcome of that test, would the test have been necessary?

Then there is the account of Abraham and when God tested him. God did not say to Abraham that He knew that he would complete the sacrifice of his son, but He said “Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”.

Then I consider the present time and for that matter all of time. It would be cruel to give life to someone that was already condemned to Hell. Our Father is anything but cruel and therefore would not do such a thing. If God knew our sin before it was committed, and did not stop us, we could rightly accuse Him of not loving most of those He gave life to. That would not be consistent with His nature and therefore I cannot accept the notion that He knows sin, before it happens.

My life is not a test for God, but a test for me and your own life is a test for you. It is a true and fair test, just as it must be. We must make every effort to pass the test.

29 Responses to DOES GOD KNOW EVERYTHING?

  1. S Ellsworth says:

    Hi A-Student,
    I have to say that I respectively disagree with some of the things you have stated in your post. 🙂 🙂 🙂
    It is going to take a bit to gather the scriptures that God has given me over the years and type it out but I will be posting soon.
    Thank you and God bless you.

  2. astudent says:

    S Ellsworth,

    Good, I know that as a man I am not always right and it is good to consider how someone else views Scripture.

    I do not write anything without thought, so changing my mind, though not impossible is quite difficult.

    I hope you can change my view, because no one learns anything by being right: only by being wrong and changing.

  3. S Ellsworth says:

    Working on my reply.
    I too think things out so I do understand. 😄

  4. S. Ellsworth says:

    Hi A-Student
    Before beginning I want you to know that I’m not here to argue or change your mind..  I am only giving you a perspective of what I believe and what God has shown me through the scriptures.

    I have broken your down post and given it paragraph numbers to make it easier for me to answer.

    Paragraph 4: “Because I believe there is nothing impossible with God and there are verses that indicate God did not know beforehand the outcome of some act, then it only seems logical that He hid the outcome from Himself.”

    I believe that the biggest mistake that humans make when learning of God and wanting to know Him better they immediately put His thinking and way of doing things on the same plane as themselves (human beings). They say, “I think and reason this way so that is the way God does it.” They forget that they are exploring unknown waters. God is Spirit (John 4:24) — a supernatural being who created everything — from the minuscule to the infinite. He is on such a higher level than us (God is not man – Hosea 11:9) that we will never, never, never begin to fathom His thinking, His ways and why He does them. So I believe when it comes to knowing God you can’t be logical on the spiritual level.

    Paragraph 6: “So, I do not believe God knows everything before it happens, and I will attempt to explain that belief, as I believe Scripture indicates this concept.”

    God has had an eternal purpose and a well thought out plan from before the foundation of His magnificent creation:

    Ephesians 1:4 – “For He chose us in Him (Jesus) before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ.” (NIV)
    Romans 8:28-29 – “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son,,,” (NIV)
    Ephesians 1:11 – “In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will.” (NIV)
    1 Peter 1:20 – “He (Jesus Christ) was chosen before the creation of the world…” (NIV)

    God has had a plan before He spoke one word to bring everything into existence and of course it is a step-by-step eternal plan. Reading the Revelations will confirm that fact. God is extremely organized. If He wasn’t the planets would all be bumping into each other. {smiles}

    He is omnipotent – Has ALL the power.
    He is omnipresent – Is everywhere at ALL times.
    He is omniscient – Knows ALL things.

    He has NO limits! Nothing is hidden from Him. 

    Paragraph 5: “It would not be consistent with the belief that nothing is impossible with God and then say He cannot hide something from Himself.”

    Sorry, without offending you, I personally see nothing really Biblical here. It’s like I’ve heard people say, “Can God create a rock that He cannot lift?” Of course He could, if He wanted. But what would be the point? There again, humans equating God with human frailties and worldly abilities. Obviously, He wrapped Himself in human flesh and came to earth in human form as Jesus Christ to save us all from spiritual death. That’s much more supernaturally miraculous that creating a rock that He can’t lift. {smiles} I have to ask, thinking in HUMAN LOGIC, would be the purpose of God “hiding” things from Himself? Not arguing here I just don’t understand the crux of your statement. {smiles again}

    We are told we must have faith. And that faith is to accept the Almighty Creator as He is and not to doubt or try to analyze Him. I found myself doing that when I first became a Christian. (Gotta know what makes God tick. Noted, it was a failed effort.) As I stated before, we will NEVER fully understand His ways.

    ROMANS 11:33-34 – “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and His paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor? Who has ever given to God, that God should repay him? For from Him and through Him and to Him are ALL things. To Him be the glory forever! Amen.” (NIV)

    In the Old Testament we learn that God wants obedience and trust. Every story is about people rebelling against Him and the repercussions. In the New Testament we learn what real unconditional love is through Jesus Christ.

    I do have more comments on following paragraphs but this is enough for this time.

    I will say in closing that the tests that the Creator puts us through are for us – not for Him. He already knows. All tests are necessary for US. To bring us closer and closer to HIM. Our lessons.

    Communicating and learning through the scriptures is a way of life and God has guided me to that path. I feel blessed each day.

    I await your reply if you choose to do so. Thank you for your time and God bless you.

  5. astudent says:

    S Ellsworth,

    ar•gue (är“gy›) v. ar•gued, ar•gu•ing, ar•gues. –tr. 1. To put forth reasons for or against; debate. 2. To attempt to prove by reasoning; maintain or contend. 3. To give evidence of; indicate. 4. To persuade or influence (another), as by presenting reasons.

    It seems to me that the word argue has been changed to mean only “to quarrel vehemently”. That is not what I want, or intend, to do. So, let’s argue as the word should mean.

    First, I want to thank you for putting forth your understanding. I believe we should explain, to everyone, how we view Scripture. No one knows everything (yet) and we are all humans, so some of what we think correct would have to be, at least slightly, wrong. I make no claims of perfection, so I certainly can be wrong about anything I say. Please try to remember that as I attempt to explain my views.

    You say, “I believe that the biggest mistake that humans make when learning of God and wanting to know Him better they immediately put His thinking and way of doing things on the same plane as themselves (human beings)”.

    That is backwards! I am attempting to place my way of thinking on the same plane as His way of thinking, not His thinking and way of doing things on my plane.

    You say that, “we will never, never, never begin to fathom His thinking, His ways and why He does them”. Well, I do not believe that is either correct or Biblical. We are given the Holy Spirit to teach us all things (1 Cor 2:9-16). Do not believe me because I echo these words (1 Cor 2:9-16), but believe God because He had these words written for us.

    You say, “God has had an eternal purpose and a well thought out plan from before the foundation of His magnificent creation” and I believe you are correct. However, though I share that view, in a way, I have a slightly different idea of His plan. Perhaps I can explain it with an analogy.

    A man designs a game; He names the game “Basketball”. He sets the rules for the game that is how long the game lasts, how one scores points, what determines a winner, etc., but he does not designate the winner of any game that he designed: even though he is the creator of the game.

    To me, when God says someone is predestined to be chosen, “having been predestined according to the plan” it means just that “according to the plan”. God will choose anyone that chooses Him. That is the plan. It is not just God that chooses, but also man. If you understand this, then you can understand (Luke 16:16 NIV) “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.” We are not forced by God to be saved, but as the verse says, we are forcing our way into the kingdom of God!

    You say, “He has NO limits! Nothing is hidden from Him.” If you truly believe that He has no limits, then you can understand that He can also hide what He wants to hide, from Himself. He made a covering for us to hide our sins from Him: so that He does not see and remember those sins, because they would remind Him that we did not always love Him with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength. That covering is Jesus and you are correct “He has no limits”. And that is the purpose of God hiding something from Himself, so that He is not hurt every time He looks at us. You would not hurt yourself on purpose and neither would our Father.

    You cite (Rom 11:34 NIV) “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” and I cite (1 Cor 2:16 NIV) “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.”

    We do not have the mind of Christ in order to instruct him, but to understand him: to understand all things, even the deep things of God (1 Cor 2:10). Believe God and stop saying that we cannot understand Him, because He says that we can understand Him.

    I agree with you when you say, “All tests are necessary for US. To bring us closer and closer to HIM. Our lessons.” I would only add that all tests (that we pass) bring Him closer to us also.

  6. S. Ellsworth says:

    Hello again,
    Before I move on to your latest post I’d like to follow up on the first post if you don’t mind.
    And do I agree that the word argue has taken on a new meaning, so how about I say, just like you, I won’t be a part of any written or any other type of altercation. That being said, here we go. . . . . :).

    Paragraph 7: “I believe, as I have said in a previous post, that we are here to be tested. I think it is a real test and being a real test the outcome cannot be known. If the result of the test is known it would not be a test, only an account. It would be history, before it happened!”

    Yes, we are here to learn lessons (from the trials we experience in life) that will lead us to God. I believe the ONLY reason we are here IS to find God. We are born with an emptiness in our spirit that needs to be filled. That void we feel is because we are not connected to God. He created us that way — to always be searching to fill that hollow spot in our spirit. Unfortunately most believe it is only worldly things that will satisfy it.
    You are right about the life being a “test” — a marathon/race to cross the finish line and then spend eternity with Him. Jesus will be waving the checkered flag.
    In human tests people don’t know the results. But God, the supernatural spirit being doesn’t operate like we do because He knows everything. HE AUTHORED it ALL. OUR lessons.

    Paragraph 10: “God asked Adam and Eve if they had eaten from the tree that He commanded them not to eat from. He did not say that He knew they would eat from the tree. He even asked them if someone had told them that they were naked. If He had looked at their sin beforehand He would not have asked these questions.”

    I believe God didn’t mention to Adam and Eve that He knew they’d eat from the Tree because what would be the point after they’d already done it.
    Saying, “I knew you’d do that” would be a waste of His words. I believe He wanted them to ruminate on their self-serving disobedient act and hopefully learn a valuable lesson — that God wants love but most importantly He wants OBEDIENCE.
    Even though He already knew they had eaten from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, God wanted the pair to say it out loud so hopefully it would sink in to their finite brains! He had motive to ask these question of them.
    Just as we humans want to hear from someone when they’ve committed a sinful act — that they did it! He wanted to bring it all out in the open and for them to own the situation!
    All the questions He asked were meant to teach THEM. HE already KNEW. It was Adam and Eve’s lesson.

    Paragraph 11: “Then, before the great flood, mankind grieved God with all of their sin and it filled His heart with pain. If God knew that man would become so wicked would it have filled His heart with pain? Would God have hurt Himself for no reason?”

    Of course it would fill His heart with pain. ALL humans, good or evil, are His creation and He would grieve with tremendous compassion when they were lost. But as we have learned from Old Testament scriptures some have to be sacrificed to fulfill His ultimate plan.
    (Paul reveals why the mistakes and selfish choices made by the Israelites during their trek out of Egypt were written down in the scriptures.)
    “These things happened to them as EXAMPLES and were written down as WARNINGS for US, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.”
    1 Corinthians 10:11

    Paragraph 12: “One might say that the time before the great flood was a failed experiment, but it was not God that failed, but man failed. If God had known the outcome of that test, would the test have been necessary?”
    Yes, of course the test was necessary because it’s not for God, the Almighty Father, it’s FOR US. OUR lesson has to be learned.
    Also, I must say that I don’t believe God experiments. Experiments are performed by humans who want answers. God already has ALL the answers. God is not man.
    If the time before the great flood was a “failed experiment” then every story in the Bible should also be considered a “failed experiment.” These stories and parables are not “experiments” — they are LESSONS for us. We read them and learn that God wants love, worship and obedience.

    (Paul writes about the Old Testament – a personal message to believers in Rome.)
    “For EVERYTHING that was written in the past was written to TEACH us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope.” Romans 15:4

    God knows He created self-centered humans. He created us and gave us a will to make a CHOICE between self or God – good or evil. He could have created humans that never questioned or searched. But He didn’t want robots! He wanted people to come to Him on their knees – knowing He is the Supreme Being. He is the Almighty Father who knows everything and will wrap us in glorious peace with Him for eternity. We just have to ask for forgiveness for our sins and accept Jesus into our hearts.

    Paragraph 13: “Then there is the account of Abraham and when God tested him. God did not say to Abraham that He knew that he would complete the sacrifice of his son, but He said “Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

    God had no reason to tell Abraham that He knew what choice Abraham would make concerning Isaac his promised son.
    This WASN’T God’s lesson it was Abrahams. The bottom line is ABRAHAM DIDN’T KNOW. It was up to Abraham to make a choice — Obedience or disobedience.
    God SPOKE those words to Abraham because Abraham was a mere human being and needed to hear the confirmation from God’s “lips” that he had done the right thing – He obeyed God.

    Paragraph 14: “Then I consider the present time and for that matter all of time. It would be cruel to give life to someone that was already condemned to Hell. Our Father is anything but cruel and therefore would not do such a thing. If God knew our sin before it was committed, and did not stop us, we could rightly accuse Him of not loving most of those He gave life to. That would not be consistent with His nature and therefore I cannot accept the notion that He knows sin, before it happens.”

    It does seem cruel that God doesn’t stop us before we commit selfish acts (sin).
    He is not being cruel in any sense of the word because these are OUR lessons! He has to “stand back” and let us make mistakes just like any Father would with his children. Also, the majority of the time we don’t even learn lessons from the mistakes of others. If we did, humans wouldn’t still be making the same ones day after day. Except for technology we are exactly the same people who appear in the Bible. The book is timeless.
    Again, HE DOESN’T WANT ROBOTS!

    I believe the Almighty Father knows everything – past, present, future. 🙂
    Thanks and God bless you

  7. astudent says:

    S Ellsworth,

    I see that we agree that this part of life is a test for all men and women. We also agree that God authored it all. We just do not agree with what “all” is. I believe that God authored the test rules, but not the outcome. As I understand your view, you believe He already knew what we would do.

    I had your view in the past, but then I wondered why God would create someone, knowing full well that they would fail the test. That would be unfair and I am sure my Father is not unfair. Do you disagree with that concept? Do you think that God would be unfair in any circumstance? Do you believe that it would be right; to create someone who’s only fate would be to spend eternity in Hell?

    You say, “I believe God didn’t mention to Adam and Eve that He knew they’d eat from the Tree because what would be the point after they’d already done it.”

    Well, it would have reinforced your view that He already knew and would have made your point and not a waste of words. But He did not. He asked them “if” they had eaten from the tree.

    You say, “God wants love but most importantly He wants OBEDIENCE.”

    The greatest command of God is (Deu 6:5 NIV) “Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.” And we know that it is the greatest, because Jesus said it is (Mat 22:38 NIV) “This is the first and greatest commandment.” The greatest commandment is not ‘Obey the LORD your God with all your heart, soul, and strength’.

    Love is more important than obedience. (1 Cor 13:13 NIV) “And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.” Obedience is not even mentioned here.

    One cannot push a load with a rope, but a load can be pulled with one. Obedience is like a rope in that it can be used improperly, and if it is it will not work.

    The person that loves our Father with all of their heart, soul, mind, and strength “wants” to be obedient in order to please Him, but the one who thinks obedience is more important than love will be miserable trying to please God. No one can earn God’s love by being obedient. He will love those who love Him and hate those who hate Him.

    A rope is good, just as obedience is good. Trying to please God by obeying Him is akin to attempting to push with a rope. Obeying God, because you love Him is like pulling with a rope. God does want obedience, but the motive is as important as the obedience.

    I love God and therefore I try to please Him by obeying, but I also know that it is not possible to perfectly obey the law. Yes, I try to obey my Father’s law, which is ‘Love the LORD my God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength and love my neighbor as I love myself’. To do so shows the world the glory of God. Though I am free from the result of not obeying God’s law, I still want to obey it.

    Being naked is symbolic of one’s sin being exposed. Though Adam and Eve walked before God naked He did not condemn them, until they knew they were naked. The first thing that God did for them was to make a covering for them: why?

    My answer is He did not want to look at their sin, not that their physical appearance was displeasing to Him. He wanted to hide their sin from Himself.

    It isn’t even necessary to know good and evil. If you love God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as you love yourself, you will automatically obey the law.

    You say, “But as we have learned from Old Testament scriptures some have to be sacrificed to fulfill His ultimate plan”. No, only one was sacrificed to fulfill His plan, everyone else is guilty of their own sin.

    (Deu 8:2 NIV) “Remember how the LORD your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands.” If I shared your view I would have to change this verse, because the last part of it does not agree with the view that God already knew what was in their heart and that they would not keep His commands. The test was so that God would know, which would mean that He did not know. This verse is the same as (2 Chr 32:31 NIV) “But when envoys were sent by the rulers of Babylon to ask him about the miraculous sign that had occurred in the land, God left him to test him and to know everything that was in his heart.” God did not know everything that was in Hezekiah’s heart and He tested him to find the answer.

    Now, there is a wonderful thought. As long as God was with Hezekiah he could not be tested. I believe he could not be tested, because God would protect/shield anyone that He is with.

    Listen to (Deu 13:1 NIV) “If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.” If God were testing the individual so that “they” might know wouldn’t the verse have to say it that way? (The LORD your God is testing you that you may find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul)

    I am searching for truth and sometimes truth does not agree with what others think, or even what I thought before I understood as I do now. I once had the same view as you do now, but I questioned that view and I believe God has answered my questions and I now see more clearly.

    I believe that it is right to question everything, even God, because without questions one cannot have answers. It is the motive that precedes the question that justifies the question. To question seeking truth is proper, but to question as the Pharisees questioned Jesus is wrong. So, you are right to question my understanding, because you cannot be sure of my motives.

    I believe “our” Almighty Father knows everything: that He “wants” to!

    Please, do not think that I believe you are wrong about what you understand. Almost everything that you have said is true. As for me, I like everything to be “exactly” right. Most of the time I am looking at a subject from a different angle than others. What they see is correct, from where they are standing, but Scripture becomes clearer when viewed from every angle possible. I stood in the same place as you and I thought as you do, but I moved and though I know Scripture can be viewed from your angle, and still be correct, I also know that there is more to know and understand. When I see something from a different angle I feel compelled to try to explain it and it seems to cause some problems. So, if I have offended you in any way, please forgive me.

    May God bless you, even more than He blesses me.

  8. S Ellsworth says:

    Hello once again. 😊

    First I’d like to answer one of the last things you say in your most recent post, “So, if I have offended you in any way, please forgive me.”

    No, you have not offended me.

    As far as my statement about obedience being the most important thing God wants, I’d like to clarify. I wasn’t clear and I apologize because IN MY MIND, as a believer, I had already taken LOVING Him into the equation as number one (didn’t write it down though, sorry). After loving Him – obeying Him is next.

    Loving him and obeying Him go hand-in-hand.
    Because of your love you obey and you obey because of your love.

    Knowing He loves us so much is tremendously inspiring.

    Also, when you say God “hides” things from Himself do you mean that in the case of believers selfishness (sin) He forgives us and chooses to not think about it anymore. I believe the actual word “hides” is what threw me off in understanding. If I still don’t understand what you mean, then maybe you can clarify further. 🙂

    God bless 🙂🙂🙂

  9. astudent says:

    S Ellsworth,

    It looks like we agree about everything.

    Well, maybe not exactly everything. I do believe that God hides my future sins as well as the sins of my past from Himself. As I think about it, if God is not hindered by time, and I do not think that he is, then He could see my future sins as plainly as He could see my past sins. I believe that Jesus is my covering and I was given that covering to hide my sins from our Father: all of my sins, past, present, and future.

    God confused the language of all men and it is almost impossible to choose the right word, or words to explain some concept or understanding. What one man says is not what another hears.

    I believe that we should all have our say, because it makes us think about what we think, or believe, about a subject. It gives us questions that we would not have if we just studied by ourselves.

    Thank you for making me think, or better said thank you for questioning me that I might have more questions to take to our Father. I not only do not have all of the answers, I don’t even have all of the questions!

    You said that loving our Father is tremendously inspiring! I had not thought about it that way. I know it is a wonderful thing, but I had not thought of it as inspiring, but it surly is. What a wonderful Father we have!

    I really do wish that God would/does bless you even more than He blesses me. My wish is not just fluff.

  10. S Ellsworth says:

    You have mentioned in some of your other posts “the Arm of God” article.
    I’d like to read it but can’t find it. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. 🙂

  11. astudent says:

    S Ellsworth,

    Thanks for asking. The post is THE TRINITY AS YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD IT. GUARANTEED!

    I wrote it a log time ago and it had been corrupted, because (I suppose) it was changed from “Word” to html. Don’t quote me on that. I am only sure that it was changed and made very difficult to read.

    I attempted to straighten it out.

    Though I learn as I go, I still believe it is accurate.

  12. S Ellsworth says:

    Thank you. Is the article listed under a date or by that title?

  13. astudent says:

    S Ellsworth
    Sorry for not being clear.
    I posted it April 10, 2007.
    Just click the archives and scroll down.
    Please let me know what you disagree with. It does not bother me when someone disagrees with me as it makes me think about the subject again. It is good for me and I hope good for others.

  14. S Ellsworth says:

    Thank you for timely reply. I will read and comment.
    🙂

  15. creationwitness says:

    astudent, S. Ellsworth,

    A few thoughts:

    We have been given free will. God does not know what we will do on a case by case basis. If he did, our will would be programmed. But:

    (Isa 46:10) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    So, is it that God does know the end because he knows that we will eventually learn his way by making many of our own “chosen” mistakes? I think he knows we will.

    Personally and being as stubborn and as curios as I am, I have to make a lot of mistakes to learn. Once learned though, I do change and follow what is right.

    Will we eventually accept that we are not as intelligent as we think we are and eventually start looking for a bit of wisdom and actually find it in the bible? I think God knows we will.

    Just thoughts moving through a man’s head 🙂

    God Bless.

  16. S Ellsworth says:

    Hi,
    Yes I absolutely agree with your statement, “We have been given free will.” If our Creator hadn’t given us free will (choice) we’d be nothing more than robots following Him. 😶 He wants us to come to Him knowing He is the ONLY answer to everything. Only He can show us the righteous way – not man and emphatically not SELF.

    I disagree with your next statement, “God does not know what we do on a case by case basis.”
    Hebrews 13:5 – “…because God has said, ‘NEVER WILL I LEAVE YOU; Never will I forsake you.'”

    Knowing that I am in his arms every nano-second of every day is the very foundation of my belief.

    Even thinking that He doesn’t have me in a case-by-case situation is frightening. He knows everything – past present and future because He is the great I AM and he can do it it ALL. He is not in a box of human limitations.

    He constantly renews my strength so I can soar like an eagle – Isaiah 40:31. Reread Isaiah 40. This gives me such hope and reassurance to know I am so protected from the world and satans fiery darts. Hallelujah.

    Goes knows the path we will take. I know it seems unfathomable and logically impossible to understand but His thoughts and ways are so far above our finite minds we will never be able to grasp it.
    That is why we are repeatedly told to hang on and have FAITH. 😀

    As far as feeling intelligent – if we’d just think of ourselves as the “dust” that we are. It kinda brings it all into perspective.

    Anything I have put in CAPS is not in angry but only to accentuate.

    I hope this has helped you to understand what I believe. Have a fantastic day in the Lord. 😄
    God bless you and yours.

  17. S Ellsworth says:

    Sorry, In second to last paragraph meant anger not “angry.” Oops

  18. creationwitness says:

    S. Ellsworth, Indeed. “God does not know what we do on a case by case basis.” is not the exact thought I had in my head either. To be more clear I should have said God does not know our every decision.

    Does God know everything? I trust he does not.

    Blessings!

  19. astudent says:

    S Ellsworth,

    Just so you know, I am not picking on you.

    You say, “I know it seems unfathomable and logically impossible to understand but His thoughts and ways are so far above our finite minds we will never be able to grasp it.”

    Actually, it would seem logical for me to believe that God’s thoughts and ways would be impossible to understand, not illogical!

    However, I was given the Holy Spirit so that I can know all things (John 14:26) and, of course, I believe that.

    I hear others say, as you do, that we cannot know everything. My question is “What is it that we cannot know?”

    It seems to me that we set limits on ourselves when we believe that we cannot know something and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We just stop trying to understand, because we have convinced ourselves that it is impossible.

    I believe that our Father wants us to understand His thoughts and ways. I do not want His power, because it would be like handing a child a loaded and cocked gun, but to understand my Fathers thoughts and ways is, next to life, in my opinion, the greatest gift He can give me.

    creationwitness

    I know what is right and yet I find myself doing wrong.

    Just as it says in Romans 7:14-25. I use to read those verses and say to myself “that is just a cop-out”, a way to evade what my Father wants, but I find it true for me as well!

  20. S Ellsworth says:

    I would hope and don’t think that you are not “picking on me.” 🙂 And the same goes for me. You have your belief and I have mine.

    I am “dust” and how can “dust” ever fully understand the Almighty Fathers thoughts and ways?

    You asked “what is it that we do not know?”

    I don’t believe for one second that we could ever understand or know how the Almighty “spoke” everything into existence. 😀 Something like that can never be explained.
    And why would God even try to explain it to us?

    Satan wanted to be God and Adam and Eve wanted to be like Him. Neither situation turned out well. 😳

    It seems to me that you to want to put our Creator, the supreme supernatural Spirit being, that created All Things and put Him into a box of humanness.

    He does want us to know some very important things about Him. To know His love and to reciprocate – to obey – to find salvation through God the Son, Jesus Christ, just for the asking and spread that glorious news throughout the world. And in doing so, will spend eternity with Him. 🙂

    But I don’t believe we are meant to delve into His “brain” so to
    speak. We should be worshipping Him and spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    I am curious as to what you hope to gain by wanting to know it ALL about our Creator? 🙂 I’m not being facetious I truly would like to know. Isn’t it enough to have been so blessed to have found Him and to know your future is secure.

    God bless you. 🙂

  21. S Ellsworth says:

    CreationWitness?

    Your comment – “I trust He does not” (God knows everything?)

    Does that statement mean that you HOPE God doesn’t know everything that is going on with His creation? That He is somehow out of tune with His magnificent creation? Or you truly believe He doesn’t have the ability to know everything?

    🙂

  22. creationwitness says:

    S Ellsworth,

    I trust he does not know our every decision. I know he knows the final outcome though. He states it. My original point was how can he know our every decision and also give us free will? If he knew, it would not be free and it would not be our, but his. If that were the case, then we would be slaves. We have been given free will to choose. That means He does not want to know our choice. We are not slaves. That is what Satan wants of us. God gives us free will because he wants us to have the choice of doing the right thing so we will learn the correct way of doing things. We will learn Him. Then how does he know the outcome? Because he made us intelligent enough to know that we will eventually learn what is right. He doesn’t want slaves. He wants children. He wants His children to learn and be like Him. If we continue to make wrong choices, he can continue to give us the opportunity to repent. Eventually we will learn.

  23. S Ellsworth says:

    CreationWitness 🙂

    You asked, “…how can He know our every decision and also give us free will.” Because HE’S GOD. That is pretty much the final answer. 🙂

    If you are thinking with human rationality, yes, you’d probably deduce that He can’t do certain things because it’s not in our scope of human understanding BUT the supreme supernatural Spirit who spoke ALL into existence FROM NOTHING has absolutely NO LIMITS – none – zero – zilch and to put Him into a box of limitations is beyond my grasp. It is one of the most difficult concepts to perceive and man has ultra difficulty wrapping their mind around it. When I think of His infinite supernatural power I am in awe.

    I will never believe the Almighty Father has any limits. I certainly don’t understand how He does what He does or why He does them but it doesn’t bother me because I know I never will. 🙂 How on earth could I, even if I lived a million lifetimes and did nothing but study His word, ever know the mind of God? I know the important things, like I stated in my last post. 😀

    I have faith. That’s what’s it’s all about. That’s why faith is mentioned so many times in His word.

    Human intelligence is so far below His way of thinking that it
    boggles my mind to even try to comprehend it. 😀

    No one will ever convince me to think of God on the same level and limitations as man.

    He is limitless and infinite. 🙂God bless you

  24. creationwitness says:

    Hi S Ellsworth,

    Yes, I agree with much of what you are saying, but making statements like “because he is God” is putting yourself in that very same box.

    atudent earlier mentioned Abraham and he is the perfect example that tells us God does not know everything. If he knew everything, he could have stopped Abraham when he was saddling his ass.

    Can he give us free will and still know what we will do? Yes, because he also tells us of certain cases. Does he know this answer before he searches our hearts? Does he want to know? Why does he search our hearts?

    It is always good to contemplate what we don’t know, but God gives us many examples to extrapolate from. He wants us to know. He wants us to learn. He wants us to be like him. He doesn’t want our learning to stop at “Because he is God”.

    I pray this Sabbath finds you well. Blessings

  25. S Ellsworth says:

    Ah yes God could have stopped Abraham but He didn’t because Abraham had a lesson to learn. Abraham had to learn that obedience to God was utmost in God’s plan (first comes loving and trusting Him🙂). God must come first. Abrahams lesson.

    I will never believe that God isn’t ALL knowing. OF COURSE He is ALL knowing. After all, He is God not finite man.

    My belief system will never let anyone take a “chunk” out of the supreme supernatural being because if I am led to believe that He isn’t ALL knowing then I may start to doubt – okay He isn’t all knowing – is He all powerful? – hmmm I wonder? What about being everywhere at all times?
    Doubt is followed by confusion and God is not the author of confusion 1 Corintians 14:33.

    I can say and believe with complete confidence and peace of mind that “He is God” encompasses it all.

    Exodus 3:13-“Moses said to God, ‘Suppose I go to the Israrelites and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they ask me what is His name? Then what should I tell them?”

    Exodus 3:14-“God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM: This is what you are to say to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you.”

    Moses was reluctant to go before Pharoah but not once did Moses question who had ordered him to go. 😊 “I AM” was enough for Moses and “He is God” is enough for me.

    Thank you for the Sabbath blessings.

    Praise God for His infinite love.

  26. creationwitness says:

    Hi S Ellsworth,

    If God knew what Abraham would do, he wouldn’t need to be tested. Nor would anyone else. The purpose of life then?

    God tells us he knows everything. He also tells us he does not know or chooses not to know our every step. Why search our hearts if he knows what is there?

    If we make a wrong turn, we can always be turned back to the correct way. Otherwise why have choice?

    Does God know everything? I think the answer is; if he wants to. If I have chosen the incorrect path, I am in deep gratitude for always being shown the way back. Eventually I will learn.

    Praise God!

  27. S Ellsworth says:

    Hello

    The trials/tests are for US to learn.

    Us not God.

    If He knows the outcome it doesn’t matter because WE don’t know the outcome.

    All these choices we make is OUR journey to find our Creator not Gods journey. He already knows.

    It’s WE humans that don’t. 😊

    The Book of Titus was written by Paul to Titus on how to be a good leader/teacher.
    Titus 1:2 – “a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised BEFORE the BEGINNING OF TIME…”

    Revelation 13:8 – “And all who dwell on earth will worship him (the beast), everyone whose name has NOT been written FROM THE FOUNDATION of the world in the Book of Life.”

    Revelation 17:8 – “The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have NOT been WRITTEN in the book of life from the CREATION OF THE WORLD will be admonished.”

    Psalm 139:16 – “Your (God’s) eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me WERE WRITTEN in Your book BEFORE one of them came to be.”

    1 Corithians 2:7 – “No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom
    that has been hidden [from believers] and that God destined for our glory BEFORE TIME BEGAN.”

    1 Peter 8:29 – “For those God FOREKNEW He also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the likeness of His son…”

    Ephesians 1:4 – “For He chose us in Him BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD to be holy and blameless in His sight.”

    Ephesians 1:5 – “He PREDESTINED US to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ.”

    Ephesians 1:11 – “In Him we were also chosen, having been PREDESTINED according to the PLAN of Him who works out EVERYTHING in conformity with the purpose of His will…”

    God has had a meticulous plan from before His creation was initiated that only He could begin to understand. Because He knows ALL and humans NEVER WILL.

    You say God only knows if He wants to.
    My supreme Creator can face ANYTHING. 😄
    I feel so spiritually secure knowing that He is there with His infinite love 24/7, ready to receive my love, praise, worship and listen to my prayers. He is lacking nothing. How great is our God. Hallelujah. 😊

    Take care and God bless you. 🙂

  28. creationwitness says:

    Hi S Ellsworth,

    I agree with what you are saying, but to answer astudent’s question we must take all scripture into account.

    Why does God search the heart unless he is looking for something? Put that together with his omniscience and you have an answer. He searches to know all things. It is also clear though that he steps in on occasion to change the outcome of things like:

    (Jdg 9:23) Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

    That is my answer up until this day anyway.

    Sincere blessings,

  29. astudent says:

    S Ellsworth

    Sorry for not answering quickly. I was out of town and had no internet.

    You say, “I am curious as to what you hope to gain by wanting to know it ALL about our Creator?” For many reasons, actually I can not see why everyone doesn’t want to know all about our creator. Let me ask you a similar question, “What is it that you do not want to know about God?”

    It seems to me that you think knowing how God does something is what I want to know. That is not my goal. How God spoke everything into existence is not the same as knowing our Father. However, saying that something like that can never be explained is saying that God could not explain it to us. If one believes that, then they do not believe that God can do anything and everything! Of course He could explain it to us.

    You are right when you ask, “and how can “dust” ever fully understand the Almighty Fathers thoughts and ways?”

    But we are not dust. We are gods!

    (Psa 82:6 NIV) “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’
    (John 10:34-35 NIV) Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came–and the Scripture cannot be broken”

    The Word of God has come to us and we are no longer “dust”, we can understand our Father’s thoughts and ways.

    Satan did not want to be like God, he wanted to be God. That is a great difference.

    Let me be very clear, I believe that God knows everything that He wants to know and sees everything that He wants to see. I believe that He does not want to see our sin and that He has sent His only son to be a covering for our sin, so that he does not see it. So, in that respect, I do not believe that God knows everything. It is His choice and He can do anything that He wants to, so I believe that He hides my sin from Himself and does not know it. I believe that He has the ability to know everything and also the ability not to know everything.

    S Ellsworth, be careful about quoting the Bible. (Rev 13:8 NIV) “All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast–all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.” It was the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world, not that the book was written from the creation of the world.

    I believe that the book of life was created the same time that the universe was created, but the names were written at the time those who were, are, and will be saved. You can read Revelation 17:8 either way: that the names were written from the creation of the world, or the book was from the creation of the world.

    I believe that God is perfect and therefore perfectly logical. This whole part of creation makes no sense if everything was determined before it happened. God hates sin and to create a sinful world and know everything about it before it happened would mean that He doesn’t really care, or that He subjected Himself to heartbreak and misery for nothing. I do not believe either scenario.

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